I've spent a lot of time working on converting the Condition Track from Star Wars Saga Edition to Pathfinder, even asking for Evil Lincoln's assistance (for which I am greatly appreciative) with some issues he noticed and pointed out to me. While working on this, I got more than a bit annoyed and forgot the rule I use for just about everything: Keep it as simple as possible. Anyway, to get to the point.
There are a lot of problems trying to put into place systems for hit point damage with wound penalties and so on. First is the death spiral (your burning too many actions to save your butt, while the penalties start adding up - hard to make a comeback). Second is it affects the PCs more than the NPCs. PCs can track their own, but tracking for a lot of mobs means... well, you kinda just quit bothering as you already have enough on your plate. Third is the fact that anything that adds more mechanics to the game usually requires even more mechanics to to make sure it works.
TL;DR - I put a lot of work into something I'm not happy with and my players are not happy with.
The Drawing Board
Problem: I do not like the massive damage threshold rules - neither do my players. We want a replacement that is simple, adds to the game, and does not increase book-keeping.
What We Have: A system we replaced the massive damage rules with that isn't simple, doesn't seem to enhance the game, and increases book-keeping.
Intent: I want to keep the Damage Threshhold idea, but simplify it and removed the book-keeping aspects with a minimum of rules to go with it.
Proposed Solution:
Damage Threshold
Attacks that deal massive amounts of damage can impair you regardless of how many hit points you have remaining. Your damage threshold determines how much damage a single attack must deal before your suffer a momentary lapse in your combat effectiveness. Your damage threshold is calculated as follows:
Damage Threshold = 10 + 1/2 Character Level + Constitution modifier + Fortitude Bonus + Equipment Bonus + Size Modifier.
Size Modifier: Creatures larger than Medium size gain a size bonus to their damage threshold. This size bonus is +5 for Large, + 10 for Huge, +20 for Gargantuan, and +50 for Colossal.
Equipment Bonus: Your equipment bonus to Damage Threshold is equal to one-half the Armor Bonus provided by your armor minus 1 (minimum 0).
Improved Damage Threshold: You can increase your damage threshold by taking the Improved Damage Threshold feat (which increases your Damage Threshold by 5).
Additional Rules: Spells and effects that affect a character's Fortitude saving throw, size, or armor bonus also affect the character's damage threshold.
Damage reduction applies to damage rolls before they are compared to the damage threshold of the creature being attacked.
When a single attack made against you deals damage that equals or exceeds your damage threshold, but not enough damage to drop you to 0 hit points, you are X.
The question is, what should variable X be?
I'm considering the following:
X = staggered until the end of you next turn.
X = flat-footed until the beginning of the attacker's next turn.
There is also the possibility of granting the attack options to choose from:
When a single attack equals or exceeds the damage threshold of the target, but is not sufficient to reduce the target to 0 or less hit points, the attacker may choose to affect the target with one of the following options:
- Knock the target prone.
- Move the target one square in any direction.
- Force the target to drop one of its weapons or an object it is holding.
I do not want to use a random table to determine the outcome and am leaning toward going with "flat-footed until the beginning of the attacker's next turn" or the "staggered until the end of you next turn" options.
Also, just to give an example of Damage Threshold, let's use a level 7 Fighter with a 16 Constitution in full plate armor, size medium:
10 + 3 (1/2 Character Level) + 2 (Con modifier) + 5 (Fighter Fortitude Bonus) + 4 (Equipment Bonus full plate is AC 9/2 = 4.5 rounded down) + 0 (Size Modifier) = Damage Threshold of 24.
In essence, any attack that equals or exceeds 24 would trigger the effect, which seems kinda low, which is another problem. I could use full level for fighters, for example; 3/4 level for clerics; and 1/2 level for wizards/sorcerors (numerically identical to their BAB progression).
Using this arrangement, assuming the same for the fighter, with wizard, and cleric:
Fighter (Full Plate, 16 Con, 7th level) 28 Damage Threshold.
Wizard (mage armor, 16 Con, 7th Level) 20 Damage Threshold
Cleric (Full Plate, 16 Con, 7th Level) 26 Damage Threshold
Constructive thoughts and criticisms are welcome and very much appreciated.
I built a character based around this when I played SW. There are abilities that can drop the threshold without even offering you a save. It is one of those things that is realistic, but hurts gameplay. The same idea was in D20 modern, but it was easier to do in that game.
Wait a minute, I just realized you are trying this in PF. PF already has this an as optional rule, not that I like the idea at all, but the point is you want to try it so I will start with this.
Massive Damage (Optional Rule): If you ever sustain a single attack that deals an amount of damage equal to half your total hit points (minimum 50 points of damage) or more and it doesn't kill you outright, you must make a DC 15 Fortitude save. If this saving throw fails, you die regardless of your current hit points. If you take half your total hit points or more in damage from multiple attacks, no one of which dealt more than half your total hit points (minimum 50), the massive damage rule does not apply.
At later points in the game dropping 50 points of damage becomes a lot easier. I would probably have a feat that allows you to ignore MD 1/day or allows you to ignore X amount of hit points for the purpose of MD(massive damage). As an example if an attack does 55 point of damage, but you can ignore 15 points of it for the purpose of MD then you still take 55 points of damage, but since it only counts as 40 points for the purpose of MD then you won't need to make a save.
I picked 15 as a random number, and I am not endorsing it as a number to actually use.
edit:I would drop the fort save, and just say that you drop start taking penalties just like in SW Saga. Normally a creature that takes half damage twice will probably be dead, but if a creature has a way to heal itself the thresholds can still add up. I would also say that your threshhold penalty goes up by 1 to a higher(better for you) level after 24 hours. If you make a DC 20+(threshhold level x 5) heal check then you can remove one additional threshhold level with long term care*.
Yeah, the original condition track system was ported over from SWSE and we tried it for a while. It does not work well at all in Pathfinder. Additionally, we don't like the Massive Damage rule as it stands (which a vast improvement over the 3.5 version, but still something we're not happy with), so we're considering trying the change to it in the original post.
In essence, the condition track is removed entirely, only the damage threshold stat remains and if it's exceeded, instead of a condition track drop, it would just cause an effect (some of the possible effects are in the initial post).
Why not make up some feats and let the effect of reaching the damage threshold be based on feat(s) taken by the character who makes the attack?
That would essentially be adding a feat tax mechanic to the system, which is something I'm trying to avoid, with the exception of the "Improved Damage Threshold" feat.
Concerns, Notes & Brainstorming:
1. If I use the "flat-footed" option when someone's damage threshold is equaled or exceeded, it opens up more opportunities for rogues to use sneak attack and makes it easier for monks and rogues to strike many opponents. I'll need to re-evaluate some of my other decisions in my House Rules that create more opportunities for sneak attack to be used.
2. Natural Armor & Shield bonus - how do they interact, if at all? I could remove the equipment bonus and replace it with a similar formula for use with Natural armor, excluding Shield bonus or including it - most likely excluding it. I could also use a static bonus based on armor type for equipment bonus (light grants 1, medium 2, heavy 3).
3. The frequency is important. This should be often enough that it's used (more frequent than massive damage), but not so often it becomes bothersome. Application at low level will be difficult, as a 1st level fighter with a con of 16, scale mail (5 AC) would have a damage threshold of 15, which is 3 points higher than his starting hit points of 12. The damage threshold doesn't become relevant for several levels.