Last night we had a fun time trying out a recently released high level module. Please, if you can figure out which one it is, no spoilers, as I'm a PC. But it brought up some rules issues, and my GM asked me to post to the forum on the group's behalf.
There are four PCs:
- a Wizard with overland flight (me)
- an Oracle with a weird race that has physical wings (30ft, poor manu)
- a Monk and a Paladin, each on their own Carpets of Flying
We spot a putrid lake, and decide to fly 100 ft over it. As we are doing so, as expected, a huge evil thing bursts up out of it. The relevant detail: physical wings (40ft, poor manu).
We want to flee.
First question: can you "run" while flying? Please answer for each of the three movement types. (The GM ruled on the spot "you can't run while flying, only double-moves" to keep the game moving.)
Then I cast haste on the party to increase our movement rate. Second question: how does this interact with our three modes of transportation? (The GM ruled that the guy with physical wings got +30 move, but that Carpets of Flying and overland flight were not affected by that aspect of the spell.)
When it was determined that we couldn't get away, we decided to engage. At this point in time, the create had risen up 60ft above the surface of the lake. The Monk decided to make a charge attack. The creature (being huge) had reach. The Monk wanted to roll Acrobatics to avoid the AoO. (The GM ruled he couldn't, because the Carpet of Flying would have to be doing the weaving back-and-forth, and it is simply a command-word activated item. So the Monk was forced to suck the AoO.) Third question: can you roll Acrobatics on a Carpet of Flying?
Then the Paladin drew his bow and began firing. Fourth question: do penalties for archery while mounted apply here? What if the Carpet had moved that round? Can the Carpet double move, and the Paladin still take an action?
Later in the combat, we managed to stagger the big critter. "Stagger" means "can only take one standard action." It decided to use an SLA. On the prior round, the thing had been flying upwards at 45degrees. It has poor manu, which means that it must keep moving forward on its next turn (ie this turn). But it doesn't have a move action this round (it was staggered, and chose to cast an SLA with its action). (The GM ruled that it got the spell off, then plummeted into the lake on the end of its turn; this triggered AoOs, but otherwise allowed it to escape.) Fifth question: how is this situation supposed to work? Does it really "fall like a rock"? Could a flyer chose to do that normally? If it does "fall like a rock", then does it happen at the start of its turn, or end of its turn? (As various attacks would go in or out of range.)
Thanks for reading!!
1a. You can run when using physical wings.
1b. You can't run when using overland flight, as that spell references the fly spell, which specifically excludes running.
1c. You can't run when using a carpet of flying, as it works like overland flight.
2. Carpets of flying wouldn't get a speed bonus from haste, but both physical wings and overland flight (as it grants a fly speed to its subject) would.
3. I would have allowed the Acrobatics check, perhaps with a penalty for unfavorable condition since the monk has to direct the carpet with spoken commands.
4. There wouldn't be any penalties, and the carpet can move without the PC spending an action.
5. In PF, poor maneuverability doesn't have special rules for what the creature can do, it only provides a penalty to fly checks (which is already built into the statblocks). The creature should have attempted a DC 15 fly check to hover in the air. If it failed this check by 5 or more, it would plummet to the ground and take falling damage, but could otherwise use a regular move instead (in this case, since it already performed a standard action, it couldn't perform the regular move and would plummet to the ground anyway).
Thanks Are for your answers. Looking into them, I feel very confident on your responses to #s 1 and 2.
Does anyone have additional insight into #s 3, 4, and 5? It seems vague and I just want to double-check!
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#3 & 4 As far as I can tell, this just grants continuous overland flight. it is speech directed but does what you want when you say. It is not a mount and does not have its own movement. You should then be able to act normally while on it. You can roll acrobatics and attack from it with no penalty but its movement counts as yours.
#5 Yes a creature can choose to fall. However uncontrolled falls come with a lot of damage, provoke AOOs and leave the creature prone. If this is an intelligent creature I would have run it the same way. If unintelligent hit should have had to roll a fly check to hover.
#5 Yes a creature can choose to fall. However uncontrolled falls come with a lot of damage, provoke AOOs and leave the creature prone. If this is an intelligent creature I would have run it the same way. If unintelligent hit should have had to roll a fly check to hover.
Thanks for your insight Seriphim.
Can you provide specific guidance on when the fall occurs? For example, if it wanted to make a melee attack, would it have been able to? Or would it fall out of reach first?To go a step further, if it wasn't staggered, and just wanted to be a big brute, could it have done a full attack? (and then promptly fall into the safety of the lake)
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Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed
You always fall at the end of your turn if you don't move or make a fly check. So you could full attack and plummet. As a Gm I would rule that falling mean volunteerly failing your fly check to hover so the monster couldn't negate the fall damage.
The Acrobatics Check to avoid Attacks of Opportunity does not mean you are commanding the Flying Carpet to zig-zag(although for flair I can see a PC or DM saying this)..
By RAW.. you make a check against an enemy's CMD.. although the DC is higher if you use a full movement.
Think of it like this... you could command the carpet of Flying to go right through the enemy.. and the monk makes his Acrobatics Check against the Enemy's CMD and passes. The DM could describe how the monster was going to slap the Monk but the monk does a front flip and totally avoids the attack.. and lands back on the carpet (flavor text).