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So basically the idea I'm looking to pull off is an un-hittable fighter, 50+ ac that is still "relatively speaking" useful, the concept I've settled on take is a 1 point Monk dip to get Crane Style, followed up by later getting Crane Wing/Deflect Arrows(I have to be able to negate natural 20s to truly be un-hittable ^_^). However I'm also going to take advantage of Monk Unarmed Strike, Close Weapon Training Synergy, and Martial Versatility so that I have an actually decent attack routine.
Anyways, if anyone would care to take a look at the build and suggest any changes I'd be happy to hear them. I like what I've got but it seems pretty feat heavy, so it's likely that I'll struggle earlier when I don't have all the supports to make the bridge stand so to speak.
Name: Cap'tien Merika
Build: Fighter 19/Monk 1(Master of Many Styles)
Race: Human(Heart of the Fields)Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Ability Scores: (20 pt buy)
STR 20 (+2 from Racial +2 From lvls /16/20)
DEX 18 (+3 From lvls 4/8/12)
CON14
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 7
Favored Class: Fighter (+1 Health)
Skills: Class 2, INT 1 = 3 per level
2 Traits: Reactionary, Indomitable Faith
Feats/Special:
Fighter 1
Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash, Double Slice
Monk 1
Crane Style, Improved Unarmed Strike
Fighter 2
Wpn Fcs(Shield, Heavy), Power Attack, Bravery +1
Fighter 3
Armor Training 1, +1 Dex
Fighter 4
Dodge, Wpn Spec(Shield, Heavy)
Fighter 5
Weapon Training +1 (Close)
Fighter 6
Crane Wing, Shield Slam, Bravery +2
Fighter 7
Armor Training +2 +1 Dex
Fighter 8
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Crane Riposte,
Fighter 9
Weapon Training +2 (Close), +1 (Bows)
Fighter 10
Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Bravery +3
Fighter 11
Armor Training +3, +1 Dex
Fighter 12
Two-Weapon Rend, Shield Master,
Fighter 13
Weapon Training +3 (Close), +2 (Bows), +1 (W/E, Maybe Heavy Blade or Polearms, Take Siege Weapons if you're feeling saucy)
Fighter 14
GTR Wpn Fcs(Shield, Heavy), GTR Wpn Spec(Shield, Heavy), Bravery +4
Fighter 15
Armor Training +4, +1 STR
Fighter 16
Martial Versatility, Martial Mastery
Fighter 17
Weapon Training +4 (Close), +3 (Bows), +2 (W/E), +1 (W/E)
Fighter 18
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting(I'm going to assume even with a tight fisted GM you'd have an inherent bonus by now), Improved Critical (Shield, Heavy), Bravery +5
Fighter 19
Armor Mastery
Let's say our level 20 equipment is as follows:
Armor: Noqual Fullplate +5(Medium Fortification/Heavy if you've got the $)
Shield: Spiked, Bashing Mithral Heavy Shield +5
Head: Headband Mental Prowess Int/Wisdom +4/+6(Whatever you can afford)
Neck: Amulet of Mighty Fists +5 and/or Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (If you can't use the combined effects rules just drink potions of barkskin instead or better yet have the druid give you some love.)
Cloak: Cloak of Resistance +5
Gloves: Gloves of Skill At Arms
Belt: Belt of Physical Perfection +6
Rings: Ring of Protection +5/Ring of Freedom of Movement
Boots: Boots of Speed or Winged Boots
Misc: Ioun Stone Pale Green Prism/Ioun Stone Dusty Rose Prism
Assuming this is the equipment that we have and we also have a +1 inherent bonus to Dex(Let's say that's all we have for the ease of argument).
If this is the case then AC = 50 (10, +7 Dex , +14 Armour, +7 Shield, +1 Dodge, +5 Natural, +5 Deflection, +1 Bonus + Deflect Arrows) or When Fighting Defensively AC= 55 (+2 coming from 3 points in Acrobatics and Crane Style) and we Benefit from Crane Wing Blocking the First hit of any round.
Effectively speaking we'd be immune to the attack routines of most CR 19-20 monsters (Thanatotic Titan CR22 hits us on a 18+ only on its first attack, Achaekek, The Mantis God CR30 only has a 35% chance of hitting us not including Crane Wing), however the trade off must be horrible damage right? Well not really, we aren't a killer that's for sure but it isn't half bad.
When Fighting Defensively:
Heavy Shield Bash +38/+33/+28/+23 2d6+21(19-20x2) and Unarmed Strike +36/+31/+26 1d6+21(19-20x2)
or for when they start ignoring us/are easier to hit
When Power Attacking:
Heavy Shield Bash +34/+29/+24/+19 2d6+31(19-20x2) and Unarmed Strike +32/+27/+22 1d6+31(19-20x2)
Anyways I realize that this isn't exactly "super effective at all levels" and even at higher levels will struggle to stay adjacent to targets so that it can actually make full attacks. Or for that matter even make people attack us in the first place(It's not fun for Mister Balor when only natural 20s hit and they're instantly negated for an Attack of Opportunity in our favor =P), but I just thought it was pretty funny that a "Unhittable" Fighter could also have a pretty damn potent attack routine!
However, what's his CMD like? I tried to stat up a fighter to fight the Tarrasque, but then CMD was pretty low.
I don't know of much monsters that could hit that easily, and boosted with buffs, that gap closes. But what about Touch attacks? Saves? CMD?
I still think this is an awesome fighter (despite people thinking fighters suck.) but on the other hand, I am no indication of near-epic levels considering the highest character level I have gotten to is 7.
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CMD is 51 =[ going to need some help from the party if it decides to put me in it's mouth lol! For the record I could get significantly higher ac with different feat choices, but I was looking to make a sort of compromise.
As an additional note, for low level this concept still works, just give up on improving two weapon fighting much and instead focus on two handed power attacks with the shield, much lower feat investment and starts making an impact earlier. Would probably be pretty decent for PFS.
On the other hand, you did list a ring of freedom of movement, which should help a lot (reading the spell: "My CMD may suck, but you'll never grapple me anyways."
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Yeah Monk level also gives escape artist as a class skill and the build has no armor Penalty so you could also have a +31 escape artist roll. Forgot about the ring for a second there -_-!
Sorry Saves are:
Fort +24, Reflex +21, Will +18,
Touch Ac is 22/27. No real good ways to boots touch AC as a fighter though, so make sure not to incur the ire of Alkenstar and you should be good.
So basically, you need a way to draw aggro? (force enemies to attack you)
It's much easier to mix above average defenses w/ sheer killing power that both serves as aggro-generating (by being a threat) and an "active defense" (by killing foes sooner so they have less rounds with which to murder you) than it is to try and add an aggro mechanic to a toothless turtle. Especially in PF, which hates aggro mechanics (unless you use spells to get them, then it's OK!) and nerfed the only good martial one there was (Antagonize) into the freaking ground.
I'll just ask now. Can you use D&D 3E material? The Backstab feat (anytime a foe you flank doesn't attack you, it provokes an AoO) alone would solve your problem. 3E makes it so much easier to make a good martial character w/ a schtick.
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Well if they don't attack me, my power attack routine is still going to be hitting as hard as a properly built Two-Fighter, though that's before you factor in having a proper crit range which will make a huge difference.
That said the idea is to have something like twice the physical defensive capability(probably ends up being a good deal more) while doing 75% of the damage which I feel I've gotten close to here. The problem isn't so much making people attack me though, as they'll never do that anyways, they'd probably rather eat AOOs all day long, since if they attack me they'll be doing that anyways. The idea is kind of if we can force them to attack me, then they're pretty much f'd, because I'm not the only part of the equation there will be useful people out there... somewhere
No plans to use 3E material, but I'll take a look/ask the GM thanks for the advice.
I was just more trying to combine Treantmonk's whole Defender of the Weak Concept(This Build does more damage than his example, with pretty much the same utility/more) With the Un-hittable concept that he scolded his audience against taking.
Marthian for the record rolling it out in a straight up man fight (just making full attacks) if I had bane weapon against magical beast on my shield/unarmed strike I kill(0 hit points not actually dead) the Tarrasque in about 5/6 rounds or so. In that time it lands maybe 1 attack unmitigated hit on me. That's without haste. Though if I don't have bane to overcome DR/epic I just barely overcome dr/regeneration so it would probably get lucky enough to kill me in the 50 or so rounds it would take to whittle it down. Though the question is, where is that a!~+@++ wizard I told to have a wish spell ready for me!
The problem with this character is that the GM will begin to ignore it and full attack others because he can never hit you and is getting tired of his monsters doing nothing.
You need a "switch" to turn your AC up-- keep it hittable on 15-20 for CR-1 monsters, and then you turn on your AC versus scary monsters and they can hit you on 15-20. Not only does it make it more interesting for the DM, who gets to use his monster's abilities, but you have a "safe word" in the AC switch that lets you take damage from lower-tier opponents to your comfort, and then swap to unhittable if your HP gets low.
You should take a second level of monk to get evasion, without it you'll get hit by AOE spells.
Also consider going for ray shield, 27 touch AC is too easy to hit.
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You should take a second level of monk to get evasion, without it you'll get hit by AOE spells.
Also consider going for ray shield, 27 touch AC is too easy to hit.
I'd rather, buy a Ring of Evasion as there is no ring of DR 5/-, that said it might be worth it, but I'm not all that worried about blasts.
Ray shield is 5 feat dip, and non of the perquisites are things I'm already taking. 27 Touch AC isn't high yes, but nothing other than Monks and Incorporeals have even "sort of" high AC for example Treerazer only has 22. Yeah it sucks to get Ray'd of Exhaustion/Enfeeblement, but there's nothing I can do about that unless I want to sacrifice a lot of DPR, which is kind of not the point of the build and it's worth noting it's not like this is something any dps fighter is going to be able to avoid either. And this character will be played on Golarion so there aren't going to be many Gunslinger encounters, asides if they want to sit next to me and trade full attacks I'll kill them first.
Out of curiousity whats your fort save like?, oh and whats your flatfooted AC without armor or shield bonuses?, also remember crane style is a swift action to activate during the combat so technically until your first turn you dont have the benefits of crane wing.
Fort save is 24(26 vs spell and spell like abilities). Flat footed is 42 without Armor and Shield that's 21. I wondering why that's important though I'm never going to be taking my armor off maybe not even to bathe =]? I'm aware combat styles are a swift action it's not really a big deal if I'm caught without it in the surprise round, it's a awesome bonus, but I don't rely on it to not get hit like a crane style monk would.
The problem with this character is that the GM will begin to ignore it and full attack others because he can never hit you and is getting tired of his monsters doing nothing.
You need a "switch" to turn your AC up-- keep it hittable on 15-20 for CR-1 monsters, and then you turn on your AC versus scary monsters and they can hit you on 15-20. Not only does it make it more interesting for the DM, who gets to use his monster's abilities, but you have a "safe word" in the AC switch that lets you take damage from lower-tier opponents to your comfort, and then swap to unhittable if your HP gets low.
I'd have to clarify with the DM, but I'd assume magic items could be toggled on and off ie. If I have more than 2 rings on my fingers I'd have to decide which ones are active(Though for balance purposes that sounds like an out of combat decision). Worst comes to worst I can just make power attack full attacks as opposed to using fighting defensively I'd still have AC 45/50(hittable) and I appear as much more credible threat, 7 Full Bab attacks all full weapon trained/wpnfcs/wpnspec. Which is essentially the whole idea in the first place.
Edit: To clarify I'd only be at 54 AC while fighting defensively not 55, I made a mistake on the numbers there.
Ray shield is 5 feat dip
Only 3 you don't already have by my count.
You need missile shield wich you can swap with deflect arrows since they do the same. Then disruptive, spellbreaker and finaly ray shield.But that is indeed heavy investment.
I'd rather, buy a Ring of Evasion as there is no ring of DR 5/-, that said it might be worth it, but I'm not all that worried about blasts.
A level of monk would give evasion, and would only delay armor/weapon training. You don't lose BAB or any bonus feat (you can even get crane wing earlier). Plus you already have your ring slots assigned, with freedom of movement being kind of mandatory you would lose 5 AC.
I fail to see the point of damage reduction a ring of DR would give you when the point of the build is to avoid damage altogether.
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Ray shield is 5 feat dipOnly 3 you don't already have by my count.
You need missile shield wich you can swap with deflect arrows since they do the same. Then disruptive, spellbreaker and finaly ray shield.
But that is indeed heavy investment.I'd rather, buy a Ring of Evasion as there is no ring of DR 5/-, that said it might be worth it, but I'm not all that worried about blasts.A level of monk would give evasion, and would only delay armor/weapon training. You don't lose BAB or any bonus feat (you can even get crane wing earlier). Plus you already have your ring slots assigned, with freedom of movement being kind of mandatory you would lose 5 AC.
I fail to see the point of damage reduction a ring of DR would give you when the point of the build is to avoid damage altogether.
Noted I'm talking about the Bonus from armor mastery, either way I probably wouldn't take the monk level till 20 and at that point it barely matters. Also Freedom of Movement is a spell that can be cast same with a +5 bonus to shield AC, Evasion and DR/5- are not so assuming we have a Cleric(We do). I'm probably going to go for the ring, that said you're probably right about it being better.
I don't have shield focus so I'd still need 4 even with swapping out deflect arrows.
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For one thing, you should have what he looks like at all the levels or at least the various level ranges. Anyone can build an awesome 20th level character. What about all the levels he has to survive through? Stat him out a 1st 4th, 8th 12th and 16th levels as well. Then you get a better idea of if he measures up or not.
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For one thing, you should have what he looks like at all the levels or at least the various level ranges. Anyone can build an awesome 20th level character. What about all the levels he has to survive through? Stat him out a 1st 4th, 8th 12th and 16th levels as well. Then you get a better idea of if he measures up or not.
I laid out the feat progression in the order I would take the while leveling, if you stop at each level notation in the original post you'll see what it looks like at each and every level. There are a couple stinker levels, but it's pretty damn strong once you hit 7 to 9 and only gets better from there(Prior to that it's a High AC martial character which are always good at low levels). The real "weakness" being that the offhanded unarmed strikes really aren't all that till pretty damn deep in the build level 17. That said with Two Weapon Rend they're still worth the investment even prior to that point.
You're righting though I'll plot it out with appropriate gear and what not and see if I actually like what I have, would kind of suck to be bored 9/10ths of the time I actually play the character.
A problem I'm seeing right now is that I'm investing a lot of feats to get +2/+4 on all attacks +2/+4 is great and all, but is it 6 Feats great?
I'm starting to think maybe not.