Going to be playing in a pirate-themed game (Skull and Shackles) and am looking to play a character similar to Westley from The Princess Bride: cocky, smooth expert fencer and all-around daring doer. In my case, I feel like mechanical emphasis needs to be made on the fencing skills, as the other stuff comes down to role-playing more than the character build, other than getting skills.
I poked around in the archives a bit for some ideas, conversions, etc...and here's where I am at present:
rolled stats (can be rearranged)
14, 16, 12, 10, 13, 12
Thinking
Str 10
Dex 16 +2 racial (human)
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 13
1. Swashbuckler - Weapon Finesse (B), Dodge, Mobility
(from Tome of Secrets)
2. Fighter - Dervish Dance
3. Fighter - Weapon Focus (scimitar), Piranha Strike
4. Monk - (Master of Many Styles) - Crane Style
5. Monk - Crane Wing, ???
6. Fighter
7. Fighter - Weapon Specialization (scimitar), Elusive Target (3.5 Complete Warrior)
8. Duelist
We're starting at level 1, so I'm not planning any farther than that, but would probably be looking to pick up some combination of: Crane Riposte, Improved Critical, Step-Up, Following Step, Step-Up and Strike, Spring Attack, Vital Strike, Improved Feint, Improved Disarm
I'm thinking that Crane and Elusive Target will really play up the expert duelist along with the actual Duelist's abilities eventually, by providing several ways to dodge attacks outright.
Not sure what, if any, archetype to pick up with the Fighter levels. I had been looking at Free Hand Fighter, but unless I'm taking Improved Disarm early, that seems rather lackluster. I'd been considering, also, just going 6 fighter into Duelist, but it becomes impossible to fit stuff like Crane Wing in until quite a bit later, due to requiring extra feats like Improved Unarmed Strike. Lore Warden looks interesting as a way to gain a little more skill-based versatility, not to mention free Combat Expertise, which opens up the possibility of taking some maneuvers early (ironically, it would make FHF attractive, if both could be taken).
Am I under-valuing Free Hand Fighter?
Not really sure I want the Monk levels, but they A) help avoid having to spend a feat on IUS, and also skirt the BAB prerequisites of the Crane feats, so I can get to Crane Wing earlyish...actually, looking at the plan above, I hit that at the expected level anyway.
Would you read the Swashbuckler's Evade ability as counting not only as Dodge to qualify for Mobility, but also for Duelist? It only mentions that it counts for qualifying for feats, but not for PrCs, so I assumed, "No."
Not thrilled with the low-looking DPS this has, but like the look of its defensive abilities, and it has a good selection of skills across Monk, Swashbuckler, Duelist and Lore Warden.
There is a archetype called swashbuckler for the Rogue(iirc). That might work better than a 3pp. I will look into it and talk to one of my players about how they built their Swashbuckling hero for my Non-S&S pirate campaign.
You mention a swashbuckling character like Westley, you mention fencing, and then you mention Dervish Dance. Bleh! And then monk? How is that justified when the character is a swashbuckler?
I'd personally switch out Str and Cha, and then go 6 straight levels in the Cad archetype. You get some solid skills added as class skills, including acrobatics and bluff, dirty maneuvers will grant a +2 to Disarm, and Payback fits well with the defensive abilities of the duelist.
Stick with rapier, as that fits your character, not a scimitar. With a 13 Str, you can do the Power Attack thing and you should still be doing decent damage. You can switch up your playstyle with combat expertise and disarm and then going to power attack to finish him, or forgo your first attack to parry and then disarm on the opportunity attack granted by riposte.
Don't splash monk to take the style feats. It doesn't work thematically. You can easily take them by using a fighter bonus feat to take Improved Unarmed Strike. This sort of overly optimized character builds are the sort of things I hate seeing on the boards. You're going to be playing Skull and Shackles, not demented GMs homebrew game. There's no need to optimize to this point.
There is a archetype called swashbuckler for the Rogue(iirc). That might work better than a 3pp. I will look into it and talk to one of my players about how they built their Swashbuckling hero for my Non-S&S pirate campaign.
I had a long look at many fighter, rogue and bard archetypes, but I'm left feeling rather unimpressed by many of them, especially the rogue ones, which feel half-done. Many of the fighter archetypes really feel like you're almost getting a different class with them, as they introduce a lot of abilities, whereas the rogue ones feel like the developer looked at the first 4 levels of rogue, made a couple of changes, and then printed it.
On top of that, I can't get enough feats into a rogue to do half of what I'd like to. Otherwise, I think I'd have preferred to play the rogue.
You mention a swashbuckling character like Westley, you mention fencing, and then you mention Dervish Dance. Bleh! And then monk? How is that justified when the character is a swashbuckler?
I'd personally switch out Str and Cha, and then go 6 straight levels in the Cad archetype. You get some solid skills added as class skills, including acrobatics and bluff, dirty maneuvers will grant a +2 to Disarm, and Payback fits well with the defensive abilities of the duelist.
Stick with rapier, as that fits your character, not a scimitar. With a 13 Str, you can do the Power Attack thing and you should still be doing decent damage. You can switch up your playstyle with combat expertise and disarm and then going to power attack to finish him, or forgo your first attack to parry and then disarm on the opportunity attack granted by riposte.
Don't splash monk to take the style feats. It doesn't work thematically. You can easily take them by using a fighter bonus feat to take Improved Unarmed Strike. This sort of overly optimized character builds are the sort of things I hate seeing on the boards. You're going to be playing Skull and Shackles, not demented GMs homebrew game. There's no need to optimize to this point.
Could do without the scorn over the optimization, but I don't necessarily disagree with your points about the monk levels.
I don't feel like they are entirely out of place (Westley certainly wasn't wearing any armor in the movie, and exhibited a deal of unarmed prowess fighting Fezzik), but they don't quite sit well with me all the same.
As for everything else...I don't really want to play a straight-up fighter...if I did, I wouldn't be going single-weapon style. You may not feel that some optimization is required, but I know that I don't much enjoy playing a combatant that is very weak, and this is just about the weakest combat style there is--it gets fewer attacks and hits for less damage than the rest, doesn't have reach, and doesn't come with any inherent benefits. Fencer was the original concept, but I can envision using a lightish slashing weapon instead and performing in roughly the same way, and have certainly seen plenty of pirate movies with people sparring off with cutlasses (basically scimitars) in a very fencer-y fashion.
I think I'm leaning toward 2 swashbuckler/4 fighter/Duelist, partly because I don't like the monk levels in there either, and partly because I don't REALLY need the other feats, but the character would probably work better with them.
Most Rogue archetypes only need the first few levels changed to get the theme. Especially Swashbuckler. Though I think their Swashbuckler might need a few tweaks (it has been ages since I even looked at a Rogue... usually I just listen to my players describe the archetypes flavor and what changes from the basic Rogue.
Also it depends on the feats. Rogues can get a Talent that grants Combat Feats and they can even get some feats as talents. Such as Finesse Rogue granting Weapon Finesse.
Magus and Bard (Especially Arcane Duelist) are good for this style of character if you don't mind their flavor.
P.S.: in one of the books for Pathfinder (might be S&S player's guide though) has Cutlass Stats.
Well, this is what I decided to go with, and sent my DM:
Ruggiero D'Pietro, Human Swashbuckler 1 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/sw ashbuckler)
Age: 19
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 195 lbs.
Chaotic Good
Str 12
Dex 18 (w/ +2 from human)
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 13
Traits: Besmara's Blessing, Fencer
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Improved Unarmed Strike, Dodge
Skills: Acrobatics +8, Bluff +5, Climb +5, Escape Artist +8, Profession (sailor) +5, Perform (dance) +2, Swim +5
Character plan for levels 1-7
Swashbuckler
Fighter (Lorewarden) - Combat Expertise, Dervish Dance (Dex for to-hit/damage w/scimitars)
Fighter - Mobility, Crane Style
Swashbuckler
Fighter - Crane Wing
Fighter - Improved Disarm or Feint
Duelist - Elusive Target (from Complete Warrior)
Ruggiero D'Pietro, grandson of Ramirez D'Pietro, is the latest in a long line of seafarers, from Captain Dante D'Pietro, the famous navy captain who defeated the feared reaver, Tirpin the Iron Shark, to Admiral Marco D'Pietro, the hero of the Fentian Gulf engagement, sailing is in his blood. Raised on tales of the swashbuckling adventures of his grandfather, Ramirez, Ruggiero has wanted to become an adventurer upon the high seas for all of his life, and has dedicated much of his energy toward becoming a world-class duelist. The stories of his ancestors have invested him with a great deal of cocky pride and arrogance, believing that it's his destiny to captain a ship and fence off against all manner of opponents for fame and glory.
Seeking that destiny at a headlong rush, he joined the crew of the first ship to set sail from Solas after his 18th birthday. The merchant vessel, Golden Whale, had little need for a brash youth spoiling for a fight, but his seamanship was impressive, so they took him on nonetheless. After half a year aboard the ship and with no more adventure than haggling with tight-pursed pleasure cruise quartermasters to be found, Ruggiero was ready to look for a more exciting home upon the waves when the Golden Whale was caught in a terrific storm. Tossed about for days, battered and broken and nearly sunk, with less than half its crew left, it finally came to rest upon calm seas, but to everyone's bafflement and shock, they found themselves in unfamiliar waters beneath a strange sky with an enormous, bright star close overhead. Ruggiero, along with the surviving crew, managed to make land and, after quite a lot of puzzled inquiry, discovered that they were no longer on the world of Margonis.
Finally, the adventure that he had been hoping for had begun! After some months moving from the crew of one ship to another, whether merchant or pirate, Ruggiero had made some friends on the docks, and in the taverns and brothels, along the coastline of the Inner Sea, but felt like the adventure he was sure had begun, was taking its sweet damn time really getting underway. With sullen spirits, Ruggiero found himself walking into the Formidably Maid tavern in Port Peril, hoping, as he'd hoped walking into many a tavern over the past year, to find his destiny, or at least drown his hopes in a glass for the night.
Not sure whether to take Improved Feint or Improved Disarm. Both fit the flavor of being a handy duelist. Feint can get me the +1d6 damage from Swashbuckler if I'm not flanking, though giving up extra attacks and movement for +1d6 damage doesn't look too appealing for most circumstances, while Improved Disarm will often not be very useful (stuff bigger than me, stuff that is unarmed, stuff with better CMD).
Thoughts? Should I look at a different tactical feat instead? If I don't go with one of those, I might swap Lorewarden for a different archetype (or maybe even vanilla fighter). None of the archetypes look very appealing, though. Cad is okay, but I get the class skills I wanted from Swashbuckler, and Cad doesn't add any skill ranks per level. Also, I have little interest in improvised weapons, though I'm sure the ability would come in hand. Meanwhile, the Free Hand Fighter gains bonuses to Disarm and Feint, which, if I wanted to use either of those, I'd stick with Lorewarden, who does them much better, and actually does provide some extra skills.
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I'd even go pure Swashbuckler if I could substitute in any of the other feats that I want to pick up Crane Style/Wing or Dervish Dance.
Love my Arcane Duelist, (High Dex finesse Rapier build) Looking to splash a level of unarmed fighter in for the improved unarmed strike, d10 damage dice, free style feat (crane) and of course the Fort and BAB save.
Use "Suggestion" like a Jedi mind trick! thats the plan anyways.
Lots of ways to go though.
Love my Arcane Duelist, (High Dex finesse Rapier build) Looking to splash a level of unarmed fighter in for the improved unarmed strike, d10 damage dice, free style feat (crane) and of course the Fort and BAB save.
Use "Suggestion" like a Jedi mind trick! thats the plan anyways.
Lots of ways to go though.
You just had to build Anoka didn't you...
Honestly Feint isn't bad if going straight Rogue/Ninja/Swashbuckler. It Also allows you to hit on their Flat-Footed AC. A hybrid build not so much Improved Disarm isn't bad if you know there will most likely be a lot of weapon wielders.
I don't know what an Anoka is.
But I do what AWESOME is.
I don't know what an Anoka is.
But I do what AWESOME is.
Anoka was a Jedi. Anoka Also was Yoda's first student. Anoka is of a race who don't have a gender instead they are beings of pure energy that take on a physical form when they die they reincarnate as a need member of their race and gain power beyond their previous incarnations. Anoka's focus is using force suggestion and a fencing based fighting style.
Anoka is effectively a Samsaren Bard with a focus on Fencing, Feinting, and Suggestion.
If there was a perpetually reincarnating super jedi running around wouldn't that muck up the plot of the original Star Wars trilogy?
Not really considering it takes approximately 25 years for their reincarnation cycle. Add to it their power increase is just an easier time learning the force do to a slightly increased connection to what they call the source.
Anoka fell at the start of the Clone Wars. Because of her age she stayed "dead" to train some of her race in the ways of the Jedi. She didn't come back until Luke Skywalker had established his New Jedi Academy. Plus she is more of the Diplomacy first, Combat second.
I don't know what an Anoka is.
But I do what AWESOME is.
Anoka was a Jedi. Anoka Also was Yoda's first student. Anoka is of a race who don't have a gender instead they are beings of pure energy that take on a physical form when they die they reincarnate as a need member of their race and gain power beyond their previous incarnations. Anoka's focus is using force suggestion and a fencing based fighting style.
Anoka is effectively a Samsaren Bard with a focus on Fencing, Feinting, and Suggestion.
Then yes, just like that. Minus the reincarnating thing.
Then yes, just like that. Minus the reincarnating thing.I don't know what an Anoka is.
But I do what AWESOME is.
Anoka was a Jedi. Anoka Also was Yoda's first student. Anoka is of a race who don't have a gender instead they are beings of pure energy that take on a physical form when they die they reincarnate as a need member of their race and gain power beyond their previous incarnations. Anoka's focus is using force suggestion and a fencing based fighting style.
Anoka is effectively a Samsaren Bard with a focus on Fencing, Feinting, and Suggestion.
Great now I wanna build a Samsaren Bard...