Hello, I was just playing with the ARG race builder and was trying to make a balanced PC race Minotaur. Used the race builder with 11 points I think but I'm not sure if it isn't a little bit overpowered so I wanted to see what you guys think.
Minotaur:
Minotaur PC race– Race Builder – 10ish RP
Medium Size.
Monstrous Humanoid – (3 RP) – Gain Darkvision(60ft) Still must Breathe, Eat, and Sleep.
Slow Move Speed (-1 RP) – 20ft Movement speed which can’t be reduced due to armor or encumbrance.
Specialized (1 RP) - +2 to 2 physical scores, -2 to one mental score. +2 to Strength, +2 to Constitution, -2 to Charisma.
Standard Languages(0 RP) – Speaks Common as starting language. May choose Undercommon, Dwarven, Gnomish, Draconic, Terran, Goblin, or Orcish as extra languages.
Hardy(3 RP) – Gain a +2 Racial bonus to resist Spells, Spell like abilities, and Poison.
Natural Attack(1 RP) – Gain a Gore attack – Primary (1d6 Damage)
Bond to the Land(2 RP) – Underground – Gain a +2 Dodge Bonus when Underground.
Light Blindness(-2 RP) – When exposed to Bright light conditions blinded for 1 round and dazzled for as long as in the exposed area.
Cave Dweller (1 RP) - +1 to Knowledge(Dugeoneering) and Survival checks made underground.
Stability (1 RP) - +4 Racial bonus to CMD against Bull Rush or Trip maneuvers when standing on the ground.
Unnatural(2 RP) : -4 to Charisma based skills to affect creatures with the animal Subtype, +4 Dodge bonus to AC against Animals, and starting attitude is one step worse than normal.
Well honestly I was worried about Hardy from a balance standpoint but Unnatural just made sense to me not from a mythical or historical standpoint but just because you'd think a bull headed monstrosity would get weird reactions from both people and animals.
However I suppose I could replace Hardy with Static Bonus Feat - Imp. Bull Rush. I do worry about how that would be useless to a spell caster character though.
Not sure that Minotaurs are historically, or even mythically predisposed to spell casting...
The gore attack isn't really wizard based either and the CHR penalty is detrimental to Sorcerers and bards...
Not sure that Minotaurs are historically, or even mythically predisposed to spell casting...
The gore attack isn't really wizard based either and the CHR penalty is detrimental to Sorcerers and bards...
Not all races are good at all classes.
True but the gore is a single point, and the CHR penalty is only a problem for those classes while not an issue for Clerics, Wizards, Druids, Oracles, or Sorcerers with that one archtype or bloodline that lets them pick other stats for their casting.
Well as I said this isn't supposed to be a historic/mythical Minotaur one shot monster it's supposed to be creatures which can actually create a functioning society and in the PF/DnD world almost all societies support spell casting in some form so I don't want too much focus on pure melee abilities.
If I were to swap in Bull rush I think I'd need to start introducing Alternate Racial Abilities so that you could trade it for Stonesinger or something. And then I'd have to start doing favored class options =P.
Wasn't the Minotaur from Minos's wife engaging in lewd acts with a white bull that came out of the sea? I'd say it's unnatural in the source mythology all right.
Of course based on the source mythology I don't think it's supposed to be very good at navigating its own labyrinth and D&D minotaurs are immune to the maze spell so there are a lot of liberties going on.
I'm not too sure about light blindness, it just seems to me that your trying to get a bigger bang for you RP buck there. Cave dweller doesn't really fit the cow people mythos, but that's just me.
Maybe consider a bonus to charge and running. like: for the purpose of charging and running a minotaurs movement speed is considered to be 30ft.
And with a bonus to str and con, your not really going to be getting many non combat brute types. Besides many (if not all) other races have one physical bonus and one mental bonus (the negative can switch around). I would suggest a bonus to int or wis to show they have an innate cunning or something.
I'm not too sure about light blindness, it just seems to me that your trying to get a bigger bang for you RP buck there. Cave dweller doesn't really fit the cow people mythos, but that's just me.
Maybe consider a bonus to charge and running. like: for the purpose of charging and running a minotaurs movement speed is considered to be 30ft.
And with a bonus to str and con, your not really going to be getting many non combat brute types. Besides many (if not all) other races have one physical bonus and one mental bonus (the negative can switch around). I would suggest a bonus to int or wis to show they have an innate cunning or something.
While I see your point if I actually cared about my RP buck I wouldn't be wasting 2 points of it on Unnatural which is mechanically a complete waste of 2 RP. I chose light blindness because the race ought to have some weaknesses and as a cave dwelling species it makes sense, (they're cave dwellers because that is the only naturally occurring labyrinth type structure and so that's the only place to put them)
Originally I wanted a -2 penalty to Dex as well as all of the other stuff instead of the movespeed penalty but that wasn't possible with the options in the race guide and I really don't feel like having a bonus to Wis or Int really fits them, maybe Wis as animal instinct but even that is a pretty big stretch. I figure as long as they don't have a penalty to those stats there is a chance that those who like the fluff will pick a caster with those stats besides which a +2 Str +2 con would still be alright for a battle cleric/battle oracle or fighting Druid.
Didn't see anything about charging/running bonus in the options available in the race guide the only thing would be the Fast race trait pick but that's just weird when combined with slow movement I guess I could just swap from slow speed to normal without any issue in particular, I just like the no move pen for armor/encumbrance thing and having the Mino be sort of lumbering instead of fast/dexterous.
Their is a special trait that grants them an increased multiplier to running and charges. I have a race like this once I can get on my laptop. It is inspired by a joke one of my players made.
You obviously need to get some more experience manipulating the Race Builder.
Their is a special trait that grants them an increased multiplier to running and charges. I have a race like this once I can get on my laptop. It is inspired by a joke one of my players made.
You obviously need to get some more experience manipulating the Race Builder.
Ah I see it's called sprinter totally didn't see that.
Well well I guess I could replace Hardy with Imp. Bull Rush then add Sprinter, and add the option to swap out Imp. Bull Rush for Stone Seer in case there's somebody who wants to be a Shaman or somesuch.
You're quite right about the manipulation I suppose. But given that this is my very first attempt to use it and only the second time I read through that section I think I did alright, no?
EDIT: Ah unfortunately Sprinter requires normal speed so I'd have to drop the slow speed thing =/ That ups me by 2 points which would require dropping Hardy or Unnatural altogether, I could however drop Hardy change to normal speed add Sprinter and add Stonesinger thus somewhat covering all my bases but losing Imp. Bull Rush ...
Whatever this is really just a thought exercise anyways since I'm not DMing and I doubt I'm going to be running a new character anytime soon or that my DM would even let me use the race builder for that matter.
For a first attempt it is good. As a theorycrafted item it is a good concept, but needed to be stated in detail. As a first step in the theorycrafting process it is excellent... made me rethink something I done with one of my races.
My suggestions, given I made a race technically descended from Minotaurs?
Scrap Hardy, Bond to the Land, Stability and Unnatural. Give them Powerful Charge and a normal land speed. I don't care what the point total will be, because the rules aren't the alpha and omega of balance by the end of the day, and my race is still more powerful despite them not even being as buff as the normal Minotaurs.
Yeah I wouldn't worry too.. much about the points total I can make a 9 point humanoid that's highly overpowered so I'd just worry more about making the concept work. As long as your in the 16(same as assimars) or so range you should be fine. Personally I think Minotaur's would be +4 STR +2 Con and have a natural armor bonus, though that would be a bit OP for PC so maybe pass the character off as a "runt" of the litter.
Wasn't the Minotaur from Minos's wife engaging in lewd acts with a white bull that came out of the sea? I'd say it's unnatural in the source mythology all right.
Of course based on the source mythology I don't think it's supposed to be very good at navigating its own labyrinth and D&D minotaurs are immune to the maze spell so there are a lot of liberties going on.
OMG, the original Minotaur is Proteus's son. :)
I think you should allow them to be Clerics, but not Wizards.
A Minotaur Oracle would be cool.
Minotaes, the Minotaurs name, was the son of Proteus in Grecian Myth. In Roman Myth they were one of the races born of Diana's anger at humanity destroying nature.
His race is close to the Roman rather than Grecian.
