Increasing weapon enchantments PFS style

[Xyllen]

When increasing a weapons enchantment from +1 to +2 we are allowed to subtract the cost of the +1 weapon from the cost of the +2 weapon. In a since just futher enchanting the sword we have.
My question is this: given the above would increasing a +1 flaming sword (+2 total) 8k+ weapon cost, increased to a +1 Flaming burst sword final cost 18k+ weapon cost, cost the player 10k or 16k?
Someone told me you had to pay the full price for the increase.

[Nebten]

A = +1 weapon
B = Flaming (a +1 bonus)
C = Flaming burst (a +2 bonus)

The Flaming enhancement is not considered half of the Flaming Burst enhancement. You need to look at them as two separate entities: Like enhancement B and enhancement C.

So if you have a +1 flaming sword (+2 over all sword), if you add flaming burst (+2 bonus), it now becomes a +1 flaming flaming burst sword (+4 over all sword bonus).

This will cost an addition 24k.

A+B+C

You can't advance Flaming into Flaming Burst, just like you can't advance Frost into Shocking Burst.

[Jeffrey Fox]

Nebten wrote:

You can't advance Flaming into Flaming Burst, just like you can't advance Frost into Shocking Burst.

So a weapon with Flaming and Flaming Burst would do 2d6 fire damage and more on a crit? Or does the flaming ability of the flaming burst not stack with the flaming ability itself?

I've always thought that since flaming burst also granted the flaming ability that you could go from flaming to flaming burst with the +1 price increase. I guess that's one of the changes from 3.5 that I missed.

[Nebten]

Jeffrey Fox wrote:

So a weapon with Flaming and Flaming Burst would do 2d6 fire damage and more on a crit? Or does the flaming ability of the flaming burst not stack with the flaming ability itself?

To answer your first question: Yes, that is correct. Flaming and Flaming Burst would stack. If you wanted to get really crazy, you could add another Flaming property on there are get a +1 Flaming, Flaming, Flaming Burst weapon which would be fab-u-lous!

Quote:

I've always thought that since flaming burst also granted the flaming ability that you could go from flaming to flaming burst with the +1 price increase. I guess that's one of the changes from 3.5 that I missed.

Actually, there was no change from 3.5 to PF in this manner. You just assumed wrong in the first place. =v)

[Thorkull]

Sorry, Nebten, but you cannot apply he same special ability to a weapon more than once.

Core Rulebook, p.468 wrote:

Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

[Wraith235]

Personally I have no Issue with progressing a Flaming or frosting Weapon into an applicable bursting ... all that bursting does is add a 1d10 on a Crit since the Flaming/Icy Burst is just an add on to the flaming / frost enchantment

[Thorkull]

Wraith235 wrote:

Personally I have no Issue with progressing a Flaming or frosting Weapon into an applicable bursting ... all that bursting does is add a 1d10 on a Crit since the Flaming/Icy Burst is just an add on to the flaming / frost enchantment

However, this is PFS we're talking about. The only upgrades allowed are straight numerical ones. There is no allowance for upgrading from flaming to flaming burst or similar:

GtPSOP wrote:

For ease of play in Pathfinder Society, a masterwork item can always be upgraded to a +1 item without paying for the masterwork cost again. Instead, you pay the difference between the cost of the +1 item and that of the masterwork item. This rule also applies to upgrading from a +1 item to a +2 item and so on—you never have to repay the original cost or sell your current item for half to upgrade to the next step.

[Nebten]

Jonathan Cary wrote:

Sorry, Nebten, but you cannot apply he same special ability to a weapon more than once.

Core Rulebook, p.468 wrote:

Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

I stand corrected. Thanks for keeping me honest, bro.

[Xyllen]

If you use the, "This rule also applies to upgrading from a +1 item to a +2 item and so on" and apply it to flame to flam burst (since flamebust is still flaming) would that not be a PFS friendly interpritation. Has this not come up before?

[Wraith235]

Actually .... SOMEWHERE ... I found it a few days ago on the boards from Joshua Frost (I think) is a Provision for taking a Magical Item and turning it into a Specific Magical Item;

e.g. +2 Composite Longbow (+2 str) into an Oathbow

one of the Guys at my FLGS Asked me the question

I'll see if I can find the thread to link it here

Edit : ok its in the FAQ not Josh ... I appologize

FAQ Wrote wrote:

Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?

Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

now since we have that ... and upon Reading Flaming burst its pretty much Just Flaming with a Crit Boost ... I guess I dont see why this would be any different than adding an additional +1 Enchantment bonus onto the weapon ... we already have mechanics in place for ease of use ... wouldnt this just fall into the same catagory ?

[Jeffrey Fox]

Nebten wrote:

Jeffrey Fox wrote:

So a weapon with Flaming and Flaming Burst would do 2d6 fire damage and more on a crit? Or does the flaming ability of the flaming burst not stack with the flaming ability itself?

To answer your first question: Yes, that is correct. Flaming and Flaming Burst would stack. If you wanted to get really crazy, you could add another Flaming property on there are get a +1 Flaming, Flaming, Flaming Burst weapon which would be fab-u-lous!

Quote:

I've always thought that since flaming burst also granted the flaming ability that you could go from flaming to flaming burst with the +1 price increase. I guess that's one of the changes from 3.5 that I missed.

Actually, there was no change from 3.5 to PF in this manner. You just assumed wrong in the first place. =v)

actually it was a rule in 3.5. It was first an faq issue that was later called out specifically in the magic item compendium rules on synergy. I guess that it was easy to miss.

[Marthian]

I believe I also read some where on the forums that a flaming weapon can be upgraded to a flaming burst.

As for the OP's post, you just pay the difference, which is usually the enhancement cost (EG going from a +1 weapon to a +2 weapon will cost 6000 GP.)

[Wraith235]

Just found this as well

Thread Source
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz53f8?What-types-of-magical-items-can-be-upgrade d#20

Don Walker wrote:

At the risk of confusing you all even more ...

Mike Brock has posted on the super secret boards that Mark's clarification of the Wondrous item upgrade rule is correct. The upgraded item does not need to have the same name. It just needs to be a legal item and has to have (and maintain) the same effect as the original when you add a new effect. Please don't look for loopholes in these words. This is just the gist of it. Refer to Mark's clarification via the link in PAZ's first post in this thread, for correct wording.

It turns out my misunderstanding came from an example I posted a few months ago for clarification following the FAQ Final Wording for the Magic Item Upgrades. There was no correction to my example and so I assumed incorrectly that my example was correct.

I am sorry for any confusion and hope this makes everything crystal clear.

Emphasis Mine

I know this is applying to Wonderous Items but IMHO the Spirit is being followed here when it comes to The Particular Weapon enchantments - since a Flaming/Icy Burst Weapon is still a Flaming or Frost Weapon

[Xyllen]

Sounds like a yes. Thanks.