Improved familiar


Rules Questions

The Exchange

Has Paizo made any definite response to a witch gaining her improved familiar and how she might be able to accomplish this w/o serving up the familiar to a bunch of trolls?


I don't understand the question.


The change from Familiar to Improved Familiar is left up to the GM but it should be a relatively painless transition.

When one of my players acquired an Arbiter Familiar I ran it as the Bat familiar she had was merged into the Arbiter. The memories became part of the Arbiter. No mechanical difference, just flavor.

- Gauss

Grand Lodge

There is no mechanical penalty or detriment for a Witch taking the Improved Familiar feat.
Sure, you lose the skill bonus, etc. that your former familiar provided, but that's it.

What do think happens?

I ask, because you seem to think something horrible happens.


BBT:

It is my guess that Sader70 is assuming that with the new familiar he has just lost his spellbook. A GM should not penalize him like this but technically he may be correct.

- Gauss


In that case technically he is correct, but I would not do that to a player either. If the GM is going to do that then the Ultimate Equipment book has an item that stores a witch's spells.


Originally, this was posted in the Pathfinder Society board, and then it was moved here by a mod. So, I think the question is whether a witch can take an Improved Familiar feat for Pathfinder Society, and if so, does that mean that the witch must kill his/her familiar (technically, the witch class says nothing about a familiar being dismissed, only what happens if it is lost or killed), and if so, does the witch lose his entire spellbook?


That, and the witch familiar text is missing the familiar text from the wizard that states they can dismiss and summon a new one. It only talks about what happens when they die.

Grand Lodge

That is a conundrum for PFS.
There really is no rules regarding what happens.
I can see your old familiar teaching your new familiar the spells it knows, prior to leaving.


The witch does not need to kill his/her familiar. For most purposes the witch uses the same rules as other classes with the familiar.

APG p69 wrote:
This uses the same rules as the wizard’s arcane bond class feature (see pages 78 and 82 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook), except as noted below.

The problem is that dismissing your familiar = dismissing the spellbook. Like I said, this is really GM territory. Unfortunately, some questions are intentionally left up to the GM but due to PFS rules that creates certain difficulties.

I would take it to the highest authority you can take it to. Start with your Venture Captain and then if an appeal is necessary proceed to the Paizo persons in charge of PFS.

Note: I am new to PFS myself and so take what I say with a grain (or pound) of salt. There should be some way to get PFS rulings from a PFS Paizo staff member.

- Gauss


Here's the problem.

Witch's Familiar Section wrote:


If a familiar is lost or dies, it can be replaced 1 day later through a special ritual that costs 500 gp per witch level. The ritual takes 8 hours to complete. A new familiar begins knowing all of the 0-level spells plus two spells of every level the witch is able to cast. These are in addition to any bonus spells known by the familiar based on the witch's level and her patron (see patron spells).

So, the section of the Wizard's Familiar that deals with losing/replacing a Familiar is part of the text that's in the section that says it overrides the Wizard familiar text. And, as you can see, it only talks about the familiar being lost or dying. Actually, per this section, you have to pay to bring in an improved familiar, minimum of 3500gp (7 * 500gp, minimum level for imp familiar being 7 if I remember correctly).


MDT:

RAW: Since it does not cover dismissal then the earlier statement of following the arcane bond class feature applies. There was no exception to dismissal since it was not mentioned.

Note: I think this is an oversight and would require GM adjucation because dismissal still results in loss of the spellbook. There is certainly a problem here. Also, acquiring an improved familiar carries special problems for a Witch. Another situation requiring GM adjucation.

They really need to have a PFS rules section rather than bumping it to the general section. Generally: this would be solved by the GM. PFS has restrictions against such things.

- Gauss

Grand Lodge

9 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 18 people marked this as a favorite.

Just have the old familiar teach the new familiar the spells, kiss the old familiar on the head, and wish it well for faithful service. No need to turn it into troll bait.


Michael Brock wrote:
Just have the old familiar teach the new familiar the spells, kiss the old familiar on the head, and wish it well for faithful service. No need to turn it into troll bait.

Sounds good. :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

And now you have your answer Sader70. I suggest you print off this page and show it to any GM which contradicts it. :)

- Gauss

Grand Lodge

My assumptions were correct. Old teaches the new.

The Exchange

I appreciate the responses, Thanks to you all! Thanks Mike B. for the clarification. Have a super day all!

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