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We've just created a six 15 point player party consisting of:
Fighter
Ranger
Monk
Cavalier
Sorcerer
Bard
The bard does not plan to be into healing so we have no healer
The cavalier isn't sure whether he will stick with this class. I'm trying to persuade him to be a cleric (a kick arse Nordic dwarf cleric to be precise)
Will they all die without a healer, or will potions and healing from Jhod Kavkin get them through?
I guess if they die they might reconsider :)
Greetings, fellow traveller.
My take on this:
While my group would have did a dozen times over without their trusted cleric of Torag, I think with six players it might work out ok.
The potential for a lot of damage is there, you have battlefield control, the ranger and bard can use wands of cure light wounds or scrolls, and UMD is a class skill for the sorcerer as well.
Depending on what version you're going to use (the original or the conversion for 6 players), healing is either a non-issue or a slight issue for your group.
Ruyan.
On a second read: do not try to convince your player to roll up a class she doesn't want to play. This will ruin the fun for her.
I'd rather advice you to put some more effort into prep and adjust the encounters to better fit your group (if needed - see above).
Ruyan.
The Dreaded Holy Foursome rears its ugly head! Abandon hope, for you cannot succeed without a meatshield, healer, finger wiggler, and a trap finding damage dealer!
Get these thoughts out of your head, this is a myth!
This is a situation that my players are working thier heads around currently. Unfortunately, decades of gaming has imprinted on them the paralyzing dread of running in a game without a designated healer avbailable. I’ve been reminding them over and over that if they want to run a party of all wizards, or barbarians, or whathave you, that is completely do-able. The key is to keep them challenged, and to not penalize them for not fitting into the typical 4 role mold.
If they want to run without a cleric, perhaps heal checks take on a different aspect and function as cure spells if you succeed by more than X? Perhaps they come across more healing potions in the world, and an alchemist happens to live in the woods nearby to suppliment themodule provided potion supplies? Perhaps it’s these ideas and others, and the players need to think a bit before rushing – take into account that they aren’t going to get healing and re-calibrate their tactics?
Something that I found fascinating – after having run both D20 modern, and Starwars RPG games, where healing took weeks as opposed to minutes – during these games, the players were *much* more cautious and conservative in their actions. They knew that healing was extremely rare, and death was permanent.
And I concur with what RuyanVe said -- convinving someone to play something they dont want to is a sure way to breed resentment. Let them run what they want to and maximize their fun.
In the end, Kingmaker is doable with or without the traditional roles being filled. It may require a teensy bit more work on the part of the GM, but it is absolutely worth it.
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Greetings, fellow traveller.
My take on this:
While my group would have did a dozen times over without their trusted cleric of Torag, I think with six players it might work out ok.The potential for a lot of damage is there, you have battlefield control, the ranger and bard can use wands of cure light wounds or scrolls, and UMD is a class skill for the sorcerer as well.
Depending on what version you're going to use (the original or the conversion for 6 players), healing is either a non-issue or a slight issue for your group.
Ruyan.
I'll be scaling things up for six players, mostly using the excellent conversion docs from this forum.
I'm inclined to agree that both the players and I will adapt to the situation in all manner of interesting ways!
BTW, the cavalier was wavering between that and cleric, so I was just trying to nudge him a little with the Nordic bit :) The decision is his.
A cavalier brings a lot to the party anyhoo.
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The Dreaded Holy Foursome rears its ugly head! Abandon hope, for you cannot succeed without a meatshield, healer, finger wiggler, and a trap finding damage dealer!
Get these thoughts out of your head, this is a myth!
This is a situation that my players are working thier heads around currently. Unfortunately, decades of gaming has imprinted on them the paralyzing dread of running in a game without a designated healer avbailable. I’ve been reminding them over and over that if they want to run a party of all wizards, or barbarians, or whathave you, that is completely do-able. The key is to keep them challenged, and to not penalize them for not fitting into the typical 4 role mold.
If they want to run without a cleric, perhaps heal checks take on a different aspect and function as cure spells if you succeed by more than X? Perhaps they come across more healing potions in the world, and an alchemist happens to live in the woods nearby to suppliment themodule provided potion supplies? Perhaps it’s these ideas and others, and the players need to think a bit before rushing – take into account that they aren’t going to get healing and re-calibrate their tactics?
Something that I found fascinating – after having run both D20 modern, and Starwars RPG games, where healing took weeks as opposed to minutes – during these games, the players were *much* more cautious and conservative in their actions. They knew that healing was extremely rare, and death was permanent.
And I concur with what RuyanVe said -- convinving someone to play something they dont want to is a sure way to breed resentment. Let them run what they want to and maximize their fun.
In the end, Kingmaker is doable with or without the traditional roles being filled. It may require a teensy bit more work on the part of the GM, but it is absolutely worth it.
You both make excellent points - the Holy foursome idea is rather a WoW, or (unfortunately) 4e sort of thing.
These players are used to being a little overpowered, so the challenge will be a nice change for them. That's also why I went for 15 point builds.
I'll let the forum know how they go!
the group i GM to are 15th (and nearing end mod 6 after 59 marvellous sessions) with the original party from 1st level, wiuth only 1 reincarnate and 2 raise deads needed. they have
druid, who doesnt learn cure spells
a multiclass rogue/inquisitor
a bard
a celestial sorceror
an infernal sorceror
an eldritch knight
fighter/rogue
so no super healers or tanks, though a few who can heal a bit. use clws, and potions and scrolls, you will be fine
all the kewl kidz say healing in combat is poor action economy so dont worry about it
the mods are pretty free to do what the party wish so they are many paths to victory and twice as many to defeat
You can also go light on random encounters if need be. Let them rest up a few days to heal non-magically once in a while, with weaker or fewer encounters.