I am learning the PFS rules and need a quote. Can anyone provide the location AND quote the line that states (or indicates) that you may not add additional abilities to existing magic items? Yes, I am aware there is no crafting, but that doesn't stop a person from paying for it using the standard non-PFS rules, I am looking for something that indicates that you cannot do this in PFS.
I have been pointed to the 4.1 Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play pages 7 and 17 but cannot find anything that states you cannot add additional abilities to existing magic items.
P.S. I am not trying to game the system etc. Simply to learn the PFS rules as I am entering PFS soon and need to plan out a character.
Thanks in advance.
- Gauss
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Hi, Gauss. Good to have you, and thank you for asking the question.
The rule is in the FAQ file, here.
Put simply, you can add the flaming ability to your +1 dagger or your +2 shocking meteor hammer, but not to your sunblade or maul of the titans.
Likewise, you can increase the power of your +1 cloak of resistance to be a +3 cloak of resistance, but you can't add the same saving throw abilities to a cloak of the manta ray.
Chris Mortika: The FAQ does not state you cannot add abilities. I am not trying to be dense but PFS specifically states when you cannot do something that is according to the normal rules. I cannot find that statement in the FAQ. Perhaps you can quote the specific line?
Howie23: I am aware the current version is 4.2 However the one that gets added to my download (as recently as 5days ago) is 4.1. I have tried to get the 4.2 copy but it keeps coming up as 4.1.
Edit: just tried again and it finally came up 4.2. I see the date of 4.2 is the 16th, thus when I tried 5days ago it was 1day too early. Oh well. :)
- Gauss
Dylos, thank you, that is exactly what I thought by reading the rules but people keep telling me that it is against the rules.
Let me put it another way: By the CRB rules a +2 Headband of Inspired Wisdom can have a Phylactery of Faithfulness added by increasing the cost of the Phylactery of Faithfulness by 50%.
People were saying that the above item is not possible in PFS but nobody could quote me the rule. Mind you, I don't care if there is such a rule. It is no big deal. But, I pride myself on knowing the rules and I could not find it and nobody was quoting the rule so that I could find it.
- Gauss
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Dylos, thank you, that is exactly what I thought by reading the rules but people keep telling me that it is against the rules.
Let me put it another way: By the CRB rules a +2 Headband of Inspired Wisdom can have a Phylactery of Faithfulness added by increasing the cost of the Phylactery of Faithfulness by 50%.
People were saying that the above item is not possible in PFS but nobody could quote me the rule. Mind you, I don't care if there is such a rule. It is no big deal. But, I pride myself on knowing the rules and I could not find it and nobody was quoting the rule so that I could find it.
- Gauss
Phylactery of Faithfulness is a named item, that is it is a specific item that is called out in the core rulebook, it is not something that you add to an existing item.
In all actuality I believe that the only non-named items are Weapons and Armor, so you could Upgrade a +1 Flaming Longsword into a +1 Flaming Vorpal Longsword, but you could not upgrade a +2 Headband of Inspired Wisdom to have the abilities of a Phylactery of Faithfulness as all items that occupy that slot are named.
If Inspired Wisdom +2 and Faithfulness were described without being attached to specific equipment, they could in fact be on the same item, however this is not the case. When you look up Headband of Inspired Wisdom, its ever only +2, +4, or +6 with no additional abilities, but if you look up flaming or vorpal, they say that they can be added to any weapon that meets the requirements. Flaming and Vorpal are abilities, where as Headband of Inspired Wisdom and Phylactery of Faithfulness are explicitly spelled out items that only do one thing.
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Dylos, thank you, that is exactly what I thought by reading the rules but people keep telling me that it is against the rules.
Let me put it another way: By the CRB rules a +2 Headband of Inspired Wisdom can have a Phylactery of Faithfulness added by increasing the cost of the Phylactery of Faithfulness by 50%.
People were saying that the above item is not possible in PFS but nobody could quote me the rule. Mind you, I don't care if there is such a rule. It is no big deal. But, I pride myself on knowing the rules and I could not find it and nobody was quoting the rule so that I could find it.
- Gauss
What you just suggested is not allowed. You can't combine items, or add numerical bonuses to an item that is not already a numerical bonus. What you can do is increase the bonus of a numerical bonus item, by paying the difference in the price.
Great, and once again all I am asking is where is the rule? It is awesome that the rule exists but nobody (and by nobody I mean this is now about the 7th or 8th poster in two threads) is quoting it so that _I_ can find it.
If the quote is in the FAQ then I am not seeing it because it specifically calls out that Wondrous Items use the rules on page 19 of the Guide to PFS Organized Play. I cannot find anything on Page 19 that specifies that you cannot add abilities to existing (named or not) items.
To reiterate: I am fine with not being able to add abilities to existing items. But I like to be able to quote rules when people ask. So far, nobody has quoted the specific line as I asked. It is rather frustrating.
- Gauss
Edit: Nevermind, Beckett answered in the other thread. Item creation section is completely out including the 'add new abilities' section. While I knew crafting was out I did not realize that extends to the item creation section. That will make things problematic since the upgrading rules are in the item creation section.
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It's the link Chris gave:
Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?
Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
(In the 4.2 guide that is actually page 24, the FAQ hasn't been updated)
For ease of play in Pathfinder Society, a masterwork item can always be upgraded to a +1 item without paying for the masterwork cost again. Instead, you pay the difference between the cost of the +1 item and that of the masterwork item. This rule also applies to upgrading from a +1 item to a +2 item and so on—you never have to repay the original cost or sell your current item for half to upgrade to the next step. Note that this only applies to items of the same kind—you can’t, for example, turn your masterwork rapier into a +1 greatsword. A mundane item can not be upgraded to masterwork, nor can nonmagical aspects of equipment be upgraded (such as the strength rating on a composite bow).
The only items that can be upgraded are the "+X Item of Something" type items, and the only change you can make is to increase the +X value. Anything that is "named" without a numerical value (such as Phylactery of Faithfulness) cannot be changed.
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Edit: Nevermind, Beckett answered in the other thread. Item creation section is completely out including the 'add new abilities' section. While I knew crafting was out I did not realize that extends to the item creation section. That will make things problematic since the upgrading rules are in the item creation section.
Didn't see this until after I posted my last reply. Glad it's sorted out now!