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So, my friend and I are building a pair of 5th level characters that we were intending to have complement each other as a pair of melee brutes. Both characters will be 5th level half-orcs. He'll be playing an Inquisitor (Anger Inquisition)3 / Barbarian 2, and I'll be playing a Sorcerer (Orc Bloodline)5.
One of the combos we're hoping to use is to have him take Amplified Rage, and for me to take Sympathetic Rage, with both of us taking Warleader's Rage as our 5th level feats. Here's the feats in question:
When adjacent to other raging allies, your rages become even more powerful.
Prerequisites: Half-orc or orc, rage class feature.
Benefit: Whenever you are raging and adjacent to a raging ally who also has this feat or flanking the same opponent as a raging ally with this feat, your morale bonuses to Strength and Constitution increase by +4. This feat does not stack with itself (you only gain this bonus from one qualifying ally, regardless of how many are adjacent to you).
Seeing an ally enter a rage causes you to enter a rage-like state.
Prerequisites: Half-orc or orc, non-lawful.
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who is raging, you may choose to enter a similar but less powerful rage as a free action on your turn. This weaker rage gives you all the benefits and penalties of a rage, except your morale bonus to Strength and Constitution is only +2. There is no limit to how long you can rage, as long as you remain adjacent to a raging ally (for example, you could take a 5-foot step away from one raging ally toward another raging ally and maintain your rage). As with a barbarian’s rage, when this weaker rage ends, you are fatigued.
Warleader's Rage allows the Sympathetic Rage and Amplified Rage effects to persist as long as we're within 30 ft of each other.
Now my two questions are:
1) If my friend rages and triggers my Sympathetic Rage, could that, plus his Solo Tactics ability, trigger his Amplified Rage? I'm reading that yes, it does, but thought I'd get a consensus.
2)Would Amplified Rage work in conjunction with an Urban Barbarian's Controlled Rage?
When an urban barbarian rages, instead of making a normal rage she may apply a +4 morale bonus to her Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This bonus increases to +6 when she gains greater rage and +8 when she gains mighty rage. She may apply the full bonus to one ability score or may split the bonus between several scores in increments of +2. When using a controlled rage, an urban barbarian gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Intelligence-, Dexterity-, and Charisma-based skills. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage.
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Huh, it ate my edit, but I was going to say that I'll actually be doing Sorcerer (Orc Bloodline)3 / Ranger (Shapeshifter)2.
We're designing them for play in a game that needs to be PFS legal (max level 12, 20 point buy, only approved sourcebooks) and the plan was to have my character focus on buffing (hopefully pre-combat) and then attack with a bite (Tusked racial trait) and two claws (Aspect of the Beast from Ranger combat style) while my friend used a falchion. Since the majority of my casting will be happening either out of combat, or at the very beginning of combat, we figured he'd Rage, start attacking, and then I would use Sympathetic Rage, either immediately or after I cast any necessary spells, to gain a minor boost as well and trigger his Amplified Rage, which would either give him a +8 morale to STR and CON at 5th level, or possibly a +4 to all his physical stats or +6 to STR & CON if Amplified Rage works in conjunction with Controlled Rage and we decide he'd benefit from more defense and the option of better ranged capabilites.
I see it like that this,
Your base rage is +2 due to Sympathetic Rage
Amplified rage still increases it by +4 to +6
With Controlled rage only get to apply it to one ability score of your choice.
I see I did not answer 1 and 2. I will get back to you in a moment.
BTW, you really should post Warleader's Rage.
- Gauss
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
I still think that controlled Rage limits the increase to only one ability score though.
What is Warleader's Rage? I can't even find it on d20pfsrd?
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I see it like that this,
Your base rage is +2 due to Sympathetic Rage
Amplified rage still increases it by +4 to +6With Controlled rage only get to apply it to one ability score of your choice.
I (the Src/Rng) am not actually taking Amplified Rage (yet), the Inq/Bar is. So I'm seeing it as, he Rages, which allows me to use Sympathetic Rage, which then, in conjunction with his Solo Tactics ability since I don't have Amplified Rage, gets him the +4 bonuses to STR and DEX.
And I wasn't sure if a)Controlled Rage counted as the rage class feature to qualify for Amplified Rage, and b) since Amplified rage specifically calls out bonuses to STR and CON if it would pump those stats, or if the bonus would attach to wherever I've currently assigned my Rage bonus(es).
If it goes to STR and DEX, it may be worth taking Controlled Rage. If it follows my morale bonus to wherever I've got it assigned, or just doesn't work, its not worth deviating from the standard Rage.
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Yeah, I thought it was weird that Warleader's Rage wasn't in the pfsrd, even though it's in Orcs of Golarion along with Amplified and Sympathetic Rage and is fully PFS legal. Anyways, here it is:
Warleader's Rage
Your rages are so inspiring to your allies that they don't have to remain adjacent to you to stay raging
Prerequisite: Cha 13, half-orc or orc, non-lawful
Benefit: Feats and abilities that allow an ally to rage or enhance a rage if adjacent to you (such as Amplified Rage and Sympathetic Rage) persist as long as your ally is within 30 feet of you and can see you. The conditions to activate the rage effect remain unchanged. For example, an ally with Sympathetic Rage must be adjacent to you to enter his own rage, but once his rage begins, he can continue raging as long as he can see you and you are within 30 feet.
Worked it out:
Sequence:
Start adjacent.
Barbarian intitates Rage
Sorcerer activates Sympathetic Rage
This triggers Barbarian's Amplified Rage (solo tactics)
You may now move up to 30feet apart and stay raging (Warleader's Rage).
1) Yes
2) I am unsure if Amplified Rage and Controlled Rage are compatible. I will have to think about them more.
- Gauss
I don't like controlled rage that much because as written(at least the way I read it) you only get to apply it to one score. I would rather it count as two rounds of rage. I am pretty good with resource management.
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I don't like controlled rage that much because as written(at least the way I read it) you only get to apply it to one score. I would rather it count as two rounds of rage. I am pretty good with resource management.
See, that's kind of what I was thinking. If you could it use it to gain a total of 12 points (+4 Str, +4 Con, +4 Dex) Controlled Rage might be worthwhile. But since the feat says it increases your bonuses, it's not worth it if I end getting a grand total of +8 stat points for the rage / Amplified Rage combo. I'm better off taking the regular rage where I end up with a total of +16 to my stats.
I would also ask the PFS GM since his ruling matters more than mine. If you have several PFS GM's then ask all of them to make sure you(and the other player) don't have issues down later on.
If they are not 100% sure they will allow it like you want it to work I would drop Controlled Rage.
PS:It seems your buddy has already entered into the barbarian type that has the controlled rage. IIRC it is the urban barbarian, and since the anger inquisition stacks with the barbarian levels he already he might be out of luck.
PS2:How are you getting rage? Is it because of the teamwork feats? If so then I don't think you can choose any rage you want. I am assuming it defaults to the regular rage or you have to use whatever rage your friend has if you don't have your own rage.
I have been looking at Amplified Rage and Controlled Rage. They both modify the stats. I took a closer look at the wording and here is what I see:
Controlled Rage changes what you get initially.
Amplified Rage says it increases the Str and Con BY +4. If it said 'to' +4 or double or something like that there would be a problem.
Since one changes what you get initially and the other gives you a boost on top of that I would say that on that basis they are independant and work with each other.
Next step: Any wording that would conflict?
Controlled Rage replaces your 'normal rage' but at the end states you otherwise use normal rage rules.
Amplified Rage just states that you must be raging.
In that there seems to be no incompatiblity except for one niggling little thing. You are no longer getting normal rage bonuses. Now, this is more of a RAI than RAW issue. I think by RAW they are compatible. By RAI I am unsure.
Final: I think it is compatible but a GM may slap this down. I would run this by the venture captain to get his/her stamp if you are really concerned about it. Prepare a brief if you need to.
- Gauss
Zerombr: Solo Tactics prevents the need for both players to take Amplified Rage.
Wraithstrike: He is getting rage from Sympathetic Rage
- Gauss
Zerombr: Solo Tactics prevents the need for both players to take Amplified Rage.
Wraithstrike: He is getting rage from Sympathetic Rage
- Gauss
In that case I would say he has to use whatever Rage the other person is using. I don't think any ruling actually says that, but it makes sense. That way a player can't just choose as he pleases, and end up with more options than the character that actually has rage.
One other thing: Cheesy :P
With this bit of cheese you are doing the following:
Barbarian is getting a +4str +4con rage boost on top of his Controlled Rage (+4 to either str, dex, or con.)
Sorcerer is getting +2str and +2con. Without a rage class feature the sorcerer cannot take Amplified Rage.
Both characters can rage and apply special Amplified Rage and Sympathetic Rage while 30feet away from the other.
Yup, cheese...but not broken. :)
- Gauss
Wraithstrike, Sympathetic Rage has its own rage bonuses: +2str and +2con. I think if you gave the Controlled Rage feature (even at half strength) to the Sympathetic Rager it would allow for customization that shouldn't be granted.
Frankly, Im curious why a Sorcerer is bothering to rage at all. Cannot cast spells while raging. Oh well :)
- Gauss
I see what you are saying. It works independently of any rage the other character has so controlled rage should not come into play for the sorcerer.
Wraithstrike: Correct.
One other thing about controlled rage: No AC penalty or Will bonus. Definitely dont want to give that to a 'half rager' like the Sorcerer.
- Gauss
Wraithstrike: Correct.
One other thing about controlled rage: No AC penalty or Will bonus. Definitely dont want to give that to a 'half rager' like the Sorcerer.
- Gauss
It seems like a really good option for a dragon disciple.
Wraithstrike: Interesting idea :)
- Gauss
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It seems like a really good option for a dragon disciple.Wraithstrike: Correct.
One other thing about controlled rage: No AC penalty or Will bonus. Definitely dont want to give that to a 'half rager' like the Sorcerer.
- Gauss
If you check out the Orc Bloodline for Sorcerers, it'll make a little more sense as to why I'm building a raging sorcerer. They get a ton of bonuses to STR, Natural Armor, a size boost, DR, the works. If I were doing a full level 20 build I'd probably go straight Orc Bloodline or maybe Crossblooded with the Draconic Bloodline, but since we're looking at a lower level cap I figured I'd take a few martial levels and get my natural attacks that way. Like I said earlier, my main plan is to focus on casting buffs, then get side-by-side with the barbarian and start tearing things up in melee. At higher levels, I'd pre-buff, open combat with a few well-placed Delayed Blast Fireballs, and then Dimension Door up to the Barbarian to pop the rage combo.
We kind of came up with the idea when we were theory-crafting and realized that it only takes like 3 spells to get an orc sorcerer of 16th level up to a 50 Str, regardless of gear. Then you pop Transformation and you get to be the best "fighter" on the field.That particular build includes a few things that aren't PFS legal though, so we're going this route. I know building a spellcaster to be a melee character probably isn't "optimized", but it fits the flavor of the Bloodline and our character ideas really well.
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One other thing: Cheesy :P
With this bit of cheese you are doing the following:
Barbarian is getting a +4str +4con rage boost on top of his Controlled Rage (+4 to either str, dex, or con.)Sorcerer is getting +2str and +2con. Without a rage class feature the sorcerer cannot take Amplified Rage.
Both characters can rage and apply special Amplified Rage and Sympathetic Rage while 30feet away from the other.
Yup, cheese...but not broken. :)
- Gauss
Lol, yeah, I know, it is a bit cheese, but it seemed like a pretty sweet combo for a relatively low investment ( two feats each for a combo that vastly increases the barbarian's rage bonuses and gives the second character a little edge) and it felt super "orcy" as well.
I'm thinking of creating an Orcish horde in one of my games where the Orc chieftain uses a similar feat combo to amp all his underlings while boosting his own power substantially. Maybe have his generals be 5th level barbarians with Amplified Rage and Warleader's Rage as well, and sub out the Weapon Focus the minion Orc Warriors normally receive for Sympathetic Rage.