We're forming a group with the intentions of running a low magic campaign. Very minor generic magic items might be available for common purchase but they will be at twice normal price and you would have to 'know a guy'. There will be no such things as divine potions or wands and divine scrolls will only work for one who worships the same deity as he who scribed it - the divine power of the gods is not a thing to be bottled up and sold to the highest bidder.
We're also seriously considering going with alternate hit point and healing rules, a truncated version of which is listed below:
Alternate Hit Points & Healing:
Damage from critical hits, sneak attacks, bleed effects and failed saving throws are considered Lethal damage. All else is considered Non-Lethal.
Lethal damage heals at a rate of 1 HP/extended rest or 1+Con modifier (minimum 1)/full day of rest.
Non-Lethal damage heals at a rate of 50% after a short rest and 100% after an extended rest.
Characters who have suffered more than 50% of their HP in Non-Lethal damage are Fatigued.
Characters who have suffered more than 50% of their HP in Lethal damage are Exhausted. Spell casters Exhausted in this way must make Concentration checks to cast spells.
At any rate, we're looking at a generic set of bonuses to compensate for the lack a half-dozen magic items per character that can be bought, sold and traded like baseball cards. This is what we've come up with:
Starting at 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter characters gain a +1 character bonus to AC and all saves.
Starting at 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter characters either gain +1 character bonus on attacks and damage or gain an additional spell slot of the highest level they can cast (their choice).
Characters will still get magic items - usually 1 major item a little more powerful than characters of that level might have, and then a handful of lesser ones who's benefits will be as much role-play as roll-play.
Thoughts?
First thought: Rogues, Monks, Barbarians and Fighters should kill themselves straight away. Rangers and Paladins might survive, if they promise their first-borns to the True Heroes of this world: full spellcasters!
First thought: Rogues, Monks, Barbarians and Fighters should kill themselves straight away. Rangers and Paladins might survive, if they promise their first-borns to the True Heroes of this world: full spellcasters!
And why is that exactly? At 16th level martial types would have +4 AC, +4 to saves, +4 attack and +4 to damage... how is that different from the benefits of having weapons and armor that do the same thing?
Edit: Unless you are referencing the ability to craft magic equipment and the advantage that would grant in a magic-poor world. My apoligies for omitting that aspect - for our purposes it is unlikely that characters will be allowed to craft magic items, or if so it will be under very unusual circumstances, usually plot-driven.
Because if you have no numerical bonuses from magic items (I know you didn't say that, but as a reference point), you would need +1 AC, almost +1 good save, and +1/2 poor save per level. Attack and damage you'll have to work out. I play without power attack and that requires me to add +1 attack & damage per level as well.
If you're giving people one magic item, it won't come close to filling the gap between what players are intended to have and the bandaid you're giving them, unless it's a crazy awesome item.
I suggest removing all numerical benefits from all magic items (leaving only items with effects as relevant) and going with a progression similar to the above.
Because if you have no numerical bonuses from magic items (I know you didn't say that, but as a reference point), you would need +1 AC, almost +1 good save, and +1/2 poor save per level. Attack and damage you'll have to work out. I play without power attack and that requires me to add +1 attack & damage per level as well.
If you're giving people one magic item, it won't come close to filling the gap between what players are intended to have and the bandaid you're giving them, unless it's a crazy awesome item.
I suggest removing all numerical benefits from all magic items (leaving only items with effects as relevant) and going with a progression similar to the above.
That seems confusing to me. Since you're not using Power Attack, martial types +1 attack/damage per level? So if they give up spending a feat to get -4/+12 damage at 12th level you have to give them +12 attack and +12 damage for free to compensate? I need to give my characters +20 good saves and +10 bad saves over the life of their characters to make up for not having a +5 cloak?
There seems some pretty dramatic inequity there. In my experience well-built and well-played characters need very little in the way of gear as a crutch.
That seems confusing to me. Since you're not using Power Attack, martial types +1 attack/damage per level? So if they give up spending a feat to get -4/+12 damage at 12th level you have to give them +12 attack and +12 damage for free to compensate? I need to give my characters +20 good saves and +10 bad saves over the life of their characters to make up for not having a +5 cloak?
There seems some pretty dramatic inequity there. In my experience well-built and well-played characters need very little in the way of gear as a crutch.
What I outlined completely replaces normal progression. So no, I don't give them +20 saves to make up for +5 cloaks. I take away their magic items AND save progression and replace it with +1 save/level. Final save ends up being 17, but I just fudge it since we don't spend much time at max level and getting stuff per level is fun. Also, I consider power attack to be a non-choice--both in taking and using the feat. Nearly every martial character has it, and must consistently use it to bleed off excessive attack rating. Hence the replacement.
Hey Wiggz. A low-magic setting sounds like a fun twist if it's done carefully.
I think that you might be doing a bit too much work though; don't drive yourself crazy tearing apart and then re-pasting the basic rules back together or you're going to end up losing your hair like me, ha!
If magic is a rare and powerful thing in the world that you are describing, perhaps I can make a few suggestions.
- Making magic items exceedingly rare is a good idea but I would try not to be too stingy on healing potions (unless you have an over-abundance of PC's with healing powers). Training your players to horde such rare treasures to save their buddy's life instead of wasting them after every fight is a better idea than spending long hours re-designing all of the magic items or dealing with a total party wipeout. Every time your players have to make new characters, the game's pace will probably slow to a crawl (making new PC's, integrating them into the story, etc). It's going to happen with low magic, but it might not have to happen that often.
- Make sure to modify your encounter tables so that creatures with spell-like and supernatural abilities or NPC's with magic items are unlikely encounters at best. It won't feel like low-magic if only your PC's are bereft of magic.
- You might save yourself a headache if you turn magic-using classes into prestige classes that aren't available until around 5th level. I believe that D&D 3.5 had a "prestigious character classes" variant in the Unearthed Arcana book. Some examples can be found here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm
- Worried about your PC's dying too often? Again, Unearthed Arcana had rules for a vitality points system wherein each PC had an additional layer of hit points equal to their CON score. The specifics are a bit too long to list but check it out here if you like:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm
- The D&D 3.5 Dungeonmaster Guide had a section on low-magic settings with a plethora of helpful advice on this topic. You might try to acquire both the DMG and Unearthed Arcana from a friend or used book store and check them out for more help. Additionally, you might do a google search for online information pertaining to this topic.
Hope I helped and good luck!
What I outlined completely replaces normal progression. So no, I don't give them +20 saves to make up for +5 cloaks. I take away their magic items AND save progression and replace it with +1 save/level. Final save ends up being 17, but I just fudge it since we don't spend much time at max level and getting stuff per level is fun. Also, I consider power attack to be a non-choice--both in taking and using the feat. Nearly every martial character has it, and must consistently use it to bleed off excessive attack rating. Hence the replacement.That seems confusing to me. Since you're not using Power Attack, martial types +1 attack/damage per level? So if they give up spending a feat to get -4/+12 damage at 12th level you have to give them +12 attack and +12 damage for free to compensate? I need to give my characters +20 good saves and +10 bad saves over the life of their characters to make up for not having a +5 cloak?
There seems some pretty dramatic inequity there. In my experience well-built and well-played characters need very little in the way of gear as a crutch.
Ah - I understand now.
As for Power Attack - and Combat Expertise and Deadly Aim for that matter - among the many changes we've made to feats has been to say that these are automatic to anyone who meets the attribute requirements. Think of them more like fighting defensively or a stance than a feat.
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We're forming a group with the intentions of running a low magic campaign. Very minor generic magic items might be available for common purchase but they will be at twice normal price and you would have to 'know a guy'. There will be no such things as divine potions or wands and divine scrolls will only work for one who worships the same deity as he who scribed it - the divine power of the gods is not a thing to be bottled up and sold to the highest bidder.
We're also seriously considering going with alternate hit point and healing rules, a truncated version of which is listed below:
Alternate Hit Points & Healing:
Damage from critical hits, sneak attacks, bleed effects and failed saving throws are considered Lethal damage. All else is considered Non-Lethal.
Lethal damage heals at a rate of 1 HP/extended rest or 1+Con modifier (minimum 1)/full day of rest.
Non-Lethal damage heals at a rate of 50% after a short rest and 100% after an extended rest.Characters who have suffered more than 50% of their HP in Non-Lethal damage are Fatigued.
Characters who have suffered more than 50% of their HP in Lethal damage are Exhausted. Spell casters Exhausted in this way must make Concentration checks to cast spells.At any rate, we're looking at a generic set of bonuses to compensate for the lack a half-dozen magic items per character that can be bought, sold and traded like baseball cards. This is what we've come up with:
Starting at 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter characters gain a +1 character bonus to AC and all saves.
Starting at 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter characters either gain +1 character bonus on attacks and damage or gain an additional spell slot of the highest level they can cast (their choice).
Characters will still get magic items - usually 1 major item a little more powerful than characters of that level might have, and then a handful of lesser ones who's benefits will be as much role-play as roll-play.
Thoughts?
Remember that the monster rules in the Beastiary assume a certain amount of magic gear that is built into the CR of the monster.
Therefore, what would be a CR 10 for a normal party might be a CR 12 or higher for a low magic campaign.
Also, remember that not all magic items are simple stat fixes. Often martial characters will use magic weapons to give them access to abilities normally only available to casters.
If I was a 10th level fighter without winged boots, I would hate my life.
Or check out this thread.
Check out some of the E6 threads going around of late - low magic doesn't hurt as bad when magic itself is limited.
We've been seriously considering going E6 or possibly E12... and as someone stated, the problem cold theoretically be fixed simply by lowering CR's of engagements, no?