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So in a game I am running right now, I have a party at level 3 and they are easily clearing the 25+cha dc to make npc's go from hostile to unfriendly(rolling 10+). So my question to you is what am I to do when they are all level 9, Is there any way to Scale the DC of diplomacy with level or at least make it more challenging without just saying hey this guy doesn't want to listen to you?
I hate the thought of them walking up to the chieftain of the tribe of murderous bandits and using diplomacy and talking them to be their friends?
At least intimidate is 10 + HD + wis.
Keep in mind that you can't change an NPC's attitude in combat, or more than once every 24 hours.
If you're dealing with single encounter NPCs, putting max ranks in Diplomacy to oppose the check isn't out of the question.
If the Party is obviously harmful (say fully armored and carrying weapons in the hobgoblins cave complex home or whatever) you might consider requiring Bluff rather than Diplomacy.
So in a game I am running right now, I have a party at level 3 and they are easily clearing the 25+cha dc to make npc's go from hostile to unfriendly(rolling 10+). So my question to you is what am I to do when they are all level 9, Is there any way to Scale the DC of diplomacy with level or at least make it more challenging without just saying hey this guy doesn't want to listen to you?
I hate the thought of them walking up to the chieftain of the tribe of murderous bandits and using diplomacy and talking them to be their friends?
At least intimidate is 10 + HD + wis.
The Diplomacy and NPC Attitude matrix is good for minor NPCs, but the key players in the adventure should take a little more effort than that.
You have a couple of options.
1) Make it more a of a "Complex Skill Check" (See Unearthed Arcana from 3.5) in which they have to succeed at X checks before failing at Y (ex., succeed at 3 checks before failing at 2).
2) Mix it up. Require Bluff, Intimidate, and Diplomacy checks in combination in order to achieve the desired result.
3) Give the opposing side a voice. Give the chieftain an advisor with a decent Diplomacy skill (as well as Bluff and Intimidate) who argues against the PCs. Start the chieftain as Indifferent, roll Initiative (maybe substitute Intelligence for Dexterity as the modifier) and let each side take turns trying to get the chieftain to either Hostile or Friendly. Once there, require an additional check at a high DC to "lock" his opinion on the matter.
Personally, I like the diplomacy rule from Giant in the Playground.
Personally, I like the diplomacy rule from Giant in the Playground.
When I clicked that I really thought it would be an OOTS strip. lol.
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You've got nothing to fear. As per the core rules:
"Influence Attitude: Using Diplomacy to influence a creature’s attitude takes 1 minute of continuous interaction."
Also, use conditional modifiers: "Give dangerous aid" is +10 to the DC, "Give aid that could result in punishment" is +15 or more.
So, if he wants to walk up to the vicious chieftain and his murderous bandits intending to make friends, he'll have to endure ten rounds of combat in which neither he nor his allies take any action against the bandits.
If the party can survive a full minute of just getting hammered on AND make their Diplomacy check, I'd have the chieftain stop, impressed, and give the party props for their toughness.