Permanency + Spells cast on ammo = ?


Rules Questions


Look at the list of spells that can be made permanent. What happens if one of those spells is made permanent on an arrow? For argument's sake lets say that it is actually cast on the arrow head that is made out of Adamantine so there is no chance of it ever breaking.

Examples:
1) If a Wall of Fire is cast on an arrow head and the arrow is fired from a bow does the wall pass through ever opponent on the way to it's target hitting each one of them before finally landing in the target's chest only to burn him?

a) What if that target dances about frantically trying to remove said arrow from his chest?

b) Does the wall spin around with him potentially burning more people as the spinning fiery wall of death turns?

c) If he does manage to remove the arrow from his torso does he basically set down the wall of fire where ever the arrow head lands?

2) What about Wall of Force?

a) Say you put this on the fletching of the arrow and aim it at the first person in the ranks of an oncoming force (pun intended) of baddies. Does this create a moving force wall that lands in the enemy's torso so that it blocks all line of effect between the attacker and the target?

b) Does this create a problem like trying to fit through a doorway while carrying a ladder sideways? Is the target not going to be able to turn properly because the wall of force that is stuck to his chest doesn't allow him to without bumping into his buddies?

Wait...I think I may have just ruined my line of thinking. Even though Permanency says, "Additionally, the following spells can be cast upon objects or areas only and rendered permanent." that probably doesn't change what the spells can be targeted on, huh? Piss. Those were such good ideas too.

Ok, so that means I'm only limited to things like Animate Objects, Magic Mouth, Invisibility, Shrink Item (not so good for this application methinks), Symbol Spells? (um... how big does that "surface" have to be?) So I could potentially make an invisible arrow that after hitting it's target continues to berate them as it smacks them about with it's fletching?

Dangit, I liked my first ideas better.

Grand Lodge

Durable Adamantine arrows are better.

Wait, can a animated object(arrow) be fired?


I think you're assuming the spells only activate once shot, which isn't how I would take it. From the moment the spell was cast I would say the effect is there.

The wall spells say they can't move. So you'd have this immovable wall with an arrow sticking out of it.


BBT: I dunno. I think it could. Couldn't it?

Buri: I did not make that assumption. I would assume that the spell is active as the arrow is shot. And yes, as I realized while making my first post, this means the walls are a no-go. Thats so sad too. :(


Sadly Lune this a case of spell cast the permanancied. So once cast the spell is on. Now for some of those thats not an issue for others it might be.

The real question is if you do this to a crossbow bolt (I use a crossbow since it seems easist to load and aim ) with invisability what if any bonuses does it get on the attack roll. Good luck finding it later.

Grand Lodge

Animated Arrow, with a Spiked Chain Weapon Modification, Brain Bioconstruct Modification, and Firebomb Stash Shatter Stash modification, fired from a bow?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Animated Arrow, with a Spiked Chain Weapon Modification, Brain Bioconstruct Modification, and Firebomb Stash Shatter Stash modification, fired from a bow?

This talk of animated arrows reminds me of the 'animated' bullets from "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"


Buri wrote:

I think you're assuming the spells only activate once shot, which isn't how I would take it. From the moment the spell was cast I would say the effect is there.

The wall spells say they can't move. So you'd have this immovable wall with an arrow sticking out of it.

arrow quiver of anti-magic


Talonhawke wrote:
So once cast the spell is on.

I never misunderstood this.

blackbloodtroll wrote:
gibberish?

Say what? Where are these?

Lurk3r: lol, I had that thought too.

Grand Lodge

Building and Modifying Constructs.


You can't use Permanency on a Wall of Fire cast on an arrow, because Wall of Fire can't be cast on an arrow. In that you are correct.

I'm not so sure about Symbol spells, they're kind of weird in general but I'd personally say no when it comes to an arrow. A shield would be okay though.

Shrink Item is quite useful; you can use it on a giant boulder to get a suitable sling bullet, or, if you're really hardcore, you can use it on a small mountain to get a fitting catapult shot. Shout the trigger mid-air and whack.

Invisibility won't by RAW do any good, but I could see DMs giving you bonuses to hit with invisible weapons.

Grand Lodge

The same thing as would happen to a spell with a finite duration cast on an arrow: When the arrow hits, it is destroyed and the target of the spell no longer exists.


Ryu Kaijitsu wrote:
arrow quiver of anti-magic

You gotta get them in there first.

Grand Lodge

Put them on a durable arrow, and use it as a melee weapon.


Wall of Fire or Wall of Force: You are correct that since neither spell has a target line it cannot be cast upon items or people and Permanency does not change this.

Regarding Symbol spells, they cannot be placed on weapons. Note: there might be one out there that is an exception but I have yet to see it. The baseline Symbol spell is Symbol of Death:

CRB p355 Symbol of Death wrote:
Likewise, a symbol of death cannot be placed on a weapon and set to activate when the weapon strikes a foe.

- Gauss

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