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Hey, I have been wrestling this for awhile now, and I can't seem to decide on which rogue archetype is better for shatter defenses.
The Rake has:
Bravado's Blade (Ex): When a rake hits an opponent and deals sneak attack damage, she can forgo 1d6 points of that damage and make a free Intimidate check to demoralize the foe. For every additional 1d6 points of sneak attack damage she forgoes, she receives a +5 circumstance bonus on this check. This ability replaces trapfinding.
The Thug has:
Frightening (Ex): Whenever a thug successfully uses Intimidate to demoralize a creature, the duration of the shaken condition is increased by 1 round. In addition, if the target is shaken for 4 or more rounds, the thug can instead decide to make the target frightened for 1 round. This ability replaces trapfinding.
I was also planing on taking Cornugon Smash on this build to give me a free intimidate check whenever I power attack.
It really comes down to how hard it is to demoralize opponents in Pathfinder. If it is rather easy, then Thug is definitely the way to go, because he gets to add one more round of shaken when the check succeeds. Not to mention the ability to also sicken an opponent for the price of one sneak attack die.
If the checks are difficult, or become very difficult at higher levels then the Rake is the better choice, do to the fact, that you can trade sneak attack die to get MASSIVE bonuses on your intimidate check.
So what are your thoughts?
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Is the Thug still better even with the -5 to each additional intimidate check on the same enemy?
It seems that without that massive bonus to intimidate checks from the Rake ability, you will only get 2 or 3 successful intimidate checks off before it becomes almost impossible, considering that after just two intimidate checks you are looking as a -10 to any future dice rolls.
Cornugan smash is great. Pick up Dreadful Carnage as well when you can. There are quite a few enemies that are immune to fear especially at the higher levels so it's not a strategy you can use all of the time but when it works it works very well.
Most enemies don't live more then a couple rounds except BBEG and they'll probably be immune anyhow.
Is the Thug still better even with the -5 to each additional intimidate check on the same enemy?
It seems that without that massive bonus to intimidate checks from the Rake ability, you will only get 2 or 3 successful intimidate checks off before it becomes almost impossible, considering that after just two intimidate checks you are looking as a -10 to any future dice rolls.
You shouldn't need to intimidatwe the same person more than 3 succesful times, unless you are dealing way too little damage or have terrible accuracy.
I like the Skill Mastery Advanced Rogue Talent.
Being able to take 10 on intimidate checks is great, especially at high levels. Use Thug (I was considering this same question earlier this week, but the ability to change Shaken into Frightened is just awesome).
Use Dazzling Display, take 10 on intimidate, auto-frighten the tanks/melee guys and remove them from combat for two rounds (one to run away, one to run back). Meanwhile, the casters/squishy guys are shaken for 4+ rounds and unprotected. Mudstomp them before their allies return.
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Wow, I'm surprised I only got one response... I should have named this thread something like "don't post your opinion on this thread," haha.
Only one respone because the first responder was correct ;) Stick with the build I posted in your previous thread and you'll be dealing high enough DPR your opponents should not last more than 3 rounds.
Is the Thug still better even with the -5 to each additional intimidate check on the same enemy?
I realize that by a strict RAW reading, this is probably correct. However, I always figured the intent was either
1) You only incur the -5 for *failed* intimidate attempts
or
2) That modifier is meant to be applied only to the "using intimidate as the poor, impatient man's version of diplomacy" and not demoralization
or
3) Both
In any case, Thug gets Enforcer feat, first Intimidate leaves foe shaken for like 2 minutes or something; don't need to re-apply it anyway.