Does Limiting Magic Fix Problems?

[Vart the Fire Man]

I've been tossing around ideas for awhile now on what might be done to help alleviate some of the issues with high level gameplay (in this case level 13+). I've read a fair amount of creative ideas on fixing the problem, as well as definitions and redefinitions on what the problem actually IS, and that has led me to my current question:

Would limiting the highest spell level available to spellcasters but keeping the spell slots for those levels help to balance out higher level gameplay?

I most often see people point to the 'broken' spells as being the main reason casters start to truly overshadow the other classes past level 10. What would happen if full spellcasters never gained access to level 7 spells or higher? Partial casters no higher than 4th? Limited no higher than 2nd? They would still gain those spell slots - to be filled with lower level spells or metamagic versions, but the most powerful spells of 3.5 and Pathfinder would be gone.

Would this have any effect at all? Is 6th level spells already high enough to make casters gods?

What do you think?

[cranewings]

What's the issue you are trying to fix?

For me, the game world changes into something I do not like with 4th level spells, with the ability to transmute gold into magic items, or with reliable access to spells for typical NPCs. For me, your fix isn't enough.

I want castle walls that stand, and that don't need to be lined with lead.

The problems with high level spells basically come from wondering why the game world looks like it does. Why are their castles when every king has a wizard that can blow them up? Why do we have armies when it would be cheaper just to make my best knights carry rings of invisibility and wands of fireball?

Normally people who have an issue with high level spells have issue with some specific thing that is being done with them, like making a bunch of wishes or something - that, or the GM is refusing to give his NPCs access to the stuff and wondering why the PCs are walking all over them.

[Lemmy]

I say it would be easier to simply ban full-casters. In a world with less magic, Wizards and Sorcerers would have to rely on other tools of survival, so they would probably become Magi and Bards.
Clercis and Oracles would probably become (Anti-)Paladins or Inquisitors. Drudis would become rangers.

It's a lot easier than modifying core classes.

[cranewings]

Sometimes limiting magic has the opposite effect. Limiting anything can tend to do the opposite of what you would naturally think.

For example, I run a low level world with the vast majority of NPCs being under 4th level. You would think that this makes the game less crazy, but truth is, once the PCs hit 6th, nothing can mess with them easily.

When you limit magic to sorcerers and oracles, ban magic item creation, and limit what NPCs have magic - you would think it would make the game less magical, but it doesn't. What you end up with is the PC's sorcerer being the only guy around who can scry and teleport, and no NPC has a reasonable counter for it, so it gets used constantly.

[Atarlost]

It's not the spell levels, it's specific spells. It's not a few of them though. Most of the enchantment school is setting poison. For Cranewings it sounds like the divination school is a problem. If too much of a single school gets gutted look for ways to fold what remains into another school. Turning the few tolerable compulsions into illusion (pattern) spells for example.

Energy Drain (Wiz/Sorc 9) is far less of a problem for world building than Create Water (Cleric/Oracle 0)

[Vart the Fire Man]

Another thing now that I think about it is the general popularity of the E6 or E8 houserules. I've played with them a few times and people seemed to be pretty comfortable with the level of magic 3rd level or 4th level spells bring.

I suppose the other question becomes, if casters had limited spell levels, would a 20th level caster be unfun to play beside a barbarian or fighter? Would it skew the balance too far in the other direction, making spell casters unviable? I'm interested to know what people would think if they were in a game with such houserules.