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My group was fighting some razorcrows (hawks) at level 2.
The razorcrows have a CR of 1/3 and a health of 4.
They're tiny, and they're freaking crows.
Anyway.
I roll a natural 20 on one of the birds.
And then I roll a 99 on the table.
My problem is, I don't think a tiny bird can kill a full grown half-elf with it talons. There wasn't any massive divebomb involved.
So, I let the PC live, after getting a massive talon induced scar across his face, and thought about some sort of rule like this.
Anyway, did I do the right thing. And what should I do in the future?
Anyway, did I do the right thing. And what should I do in the future?
You definitely made the right call. The scar builds up the character, and as a DM it is up to you how you want your game to run.
The only problem with crit tables is to use them in the first place :)
Crit tables and fumble tables are virtually always far worse for the PCs than for the enemies, since the enemies are typically there to be defeated in the first place. The PCs have to live with (or die with) the consequences.
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The only problem with crit tables is to use them in the first place :)
Crit tables and fumble tables are virtually always far worse for the PCs than for the enemies, since the enemies are typically there to be defeated in the first place. The PCs have to live with (or die with) the consequences.
So far, the party is far more likely to crit, and instantlly kill on the crit, once by decapitation, and once by doing 50 points of damage against a bird with 4 HP the results were amusing, AND an enemy (another razorcrow) killed itself by critting itself (flying into a tree). Anywaway, this is not about if I should or should not use the table, my group loves the table.
The question was when fighting tiny creatures using natural weapons, should the crits never be deadly, just permantly scarring.
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I think what people meant is that the crit table is an optional rule set, which can have unbalancing consequences in the game, moreso when you start house-ruling when the table may or may not apply. It sounds like you made a good call in this instance, but it also could set a worrisome precedence.
"That fairy's rapier is four times smaller than that crow's beak, and it was physically impossible for that crow to kill me, so why should this?"
"That quickling's dagger is the size of a toothpick, he couldn't actually kill a full-grown man with it."
You've created a whole new ruleset essentially saying tiny critters can't kill anyone.
Yes you did, IMHO. As the GM it's your responsibility to try and keep the game somewhat realistic. An even if its a Crit and the tables say such and such happens, if it doesn't make since. Then override it, which you did. An the addition of the scar was great. Remember what the books say, "these are guide lines".
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I think what people meant is that the crit table is an optional rule set, which can have unbalancing consequences in the game, moreso when you start house-ruling when the table may or may not apply. It sounds like you made a good call in this instance, but it also could set a worrisome precedence.
"That fairy's rapier is four times smaller than that crow's beak, and it was physically impossible for that crow to kill me, so why should this?"
"That quickling's dagger is the size of a toothpick, he couldn't actually kill a full-grown man with it."
You've created a whole new ruleset essentially saying tiny critters can't kill anyone.
Not quite, I'm thinking that only natural weapons from tiny creatures can't kill.
I don't know claws or beak to the neck...arterial veins severed death in seconds....
The only problem with crit tables is to use them in the first place :)
Crit tables and fumble tables are virtually always far worse for the PCs than for the enemies, since the enemies are typically there to be defeated in the first place. The PCs have to live with (or die with) the consequences.
So far, the party is far more likely to crit, and instantlly kill on the crit, once by decapitation, and once by doing 50 points of damage against a bird with 4 HP the results were amusing, AND an enemy (another razorcrow) killed itself by critting itself (flying into a tree). Anywaway, this is not about if I should or should not use the table, my group loves the table.
I didn't mean to offend; you should of course use the table if you and your group enjoys it.
What I tried to do (but probably didn't do very well) was to point out the different consequences of crits against enemies compared to crits against PCs. The enemies are supposed to die anyway, so the consequence of a spectacular death by crit is only that it dies faster or in a more spectactular or humorous fashion than it otherwise would. However, the PCs generally prefer to stay alive, so a spectacular death by crit is a lot worse as a consequence (especially when the normal crit damage would have been negligible).
I'm not sure what would be the best way to houserule a crit table to be less damaging to PCs in situations like this. Perhaps taking the PC out of the current encounter, plus giving the scar?
Would you ignore a killing crit done by a halfling with a knife vs a dragon, too?
That's about the same as crow vs medium humanoid.
Krit tables only make sense if they are used as they come.
Now if another pc is killed by a crit he will most likely be upset if you don't reduce the crit on him, too.
That said: I don't like those kinds of crit tables. And I'm glad PF doesn't have them as core rules.
Would you ignore a killing crit done by a halfling with a knife vs a dragon, too?
That better be some dagger!
If this makes you more comfortable: if the creature's maximum crit damage is insufficient to kill the target, deal maximum damage instead... with a quarter of the effect in bleed. Horribly nasty and so perfectly table-worthy.
Remember what one of the suggestions relating to the crit table/deck. Use for when a PC, key NPC (read named NPC), or when a boss gets a critical not for normal encounters. So the BBEG gera a critical he would get to use the table. A lowly kobold warrior 1 would not. Same with a dragon versus a wolf. The dragon is a boss battle (maybe a mini-boss but still applies) but the wolf is a lesser encounter unless it is some supped up uber-wolf.