TotB - Evidence at Sanctuary


Carrion Crown

Sovereign Court

My group is getting ready to tackle Hergstag and Sanctuary at our next game, and it appears to me that the evidence available at Sanctuary is rather thin:

Spoiler:
The group finds burnt letters mentioning the Chymic Works. They also find a bottle of bleach from the Chymic Works as well. Karl confirms that Vorkstag and Grine were occasional visitors to the Sanctuary.

Additionally, the players can find the head of Dr. Brada, and if they cast Speak with Dead, the Doctor can tell them the whole story. But if the PC's don't have access to a speak with dead spell (they are still only 4th level), then all that they have to go on is the references to the Chymic Works. Now, the players can certainly metagame this information, realizing that if the adventure makes two references to a place, then the adventure probably wants you to go there. But I really discourage metagaming, and the two mentions of the Chymic Works are meaningless to the players.

Any suggestions on adding evidence that clearly exonerates the Beast, or that definitively points to Vorkstag and Grine as the likely culprits?


So, players who are reading this, go away because this is totally a GM discussion on events in the TOTB and I don't just want to wrap my entire post in a spoiler box.

Anyway, you're right.

There's nothing in Sanctuary that directly exonerates the beast. That evidence comes from the Chymic Works (specifically the cupboard of skins). The head will definitely indite the V&G, so the players could call a recess for the trial to investigate the Works lead.

Alternatively you could have a situation where someone tries to get the head back from the players (either on their way back to the court or a break in at the court house/inn/where-ever the head is) that can indicate V&G. Follow the thief back to V&Gs or back to his hide out where there is a letter ordering him written in the same handwriting as the charred notes from Sanctuary.

Those are a few things that come to mind. My players wanted to get inside after tracking down the surgical instruments (and were turned away), so when they finished the Sanctuary they were certain they had to break in. Then they killed everyone inside.

Sczarni

I wouldn't really think that it's metagaming for them to go investigate the Chymic Works based on the evidence at Sanctuary, especially if they've also traced the surgical tools.

If they go to the Works and seem to be stalling out, just have V or G act super duper suspiciously in some way.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My players just traced the surgical tools - then lied their way inside - saw the slave labor and decided they had found bad guys.

This was before the sanctuary, which they just felt confirmed what they had done.

Well... that and the dead bodies in the basement.

Sczarni

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My witch player charmed Grine at the front gate, and he gave her the guided tour.

It helped that she was covered with bone jewelry and looked like an excellent potential customer.

Which in fact she would have been, under different circumstances.


This was a problem for me as well. I had to actually prod and argue with my players to follow the lead of evidence pointing to Vorkstag and Grine. They'd tracked down the surgeon's tools to the Chymic Works before hand, but had written it off mostly when the were told to bugger off by Grine when they visited. None of them had training in Linguistics, so they couldn't find the writing on the burnt papers and only have the vial to go off of. The argument went pretty much like this; Players: why would we track down the manufacturers of some bleach found at a hospital?; DM: Maybe you shouldn't throw out any possible leads...; Players: Well then, maybe we should also investigate who built these water barrels, or the carpenter who installed these wooden beams? Apparently any names or business names you find at a crime scene are automatically suspects.
Heh, it was like the opposite of metagaming. Once they used speak with dead on Dr. Brada's head, they had enough to actually put some thought into investigating the Chymic Works. Problem was, they didn't feel they had enough to actually bust into the place or even tresspass (darn paladins!) Finally I had to have Gustav, who I presume was desperate to win his case, suggest that they tresspass with the hope that they'd find evidence that would justify breaking and entering.

Sovereign Court

This is how it went down in my game. My players found the clues about brother swarm and used that at the trial. They blew it at the swamp and didnt find the surgical tools. However they got the barrister to grill the witness putting some holes in his story. I had Vorkstag attending the trial in disguise. He decided that him and Grine had to remove any possible clues at the sanctuary site.

Too late though the PCs are already there and found the lock box with the burnt papers and the vials of bleach. When the PCs got outside Grine released the golem hound which attacked the PCs. V and G stayed hidden and when the PCs killed their golem they fled and the PCs failed to track them. Back in town that night V decided to take a different approach and kidnapped Gaple the barrister. Trial was put on recess and PCs had to try and find him. They decided to investigate this Chymic works since it was the only lead they had. When they got their they see a very familiar looking Golem hound out front. Ah-Ha!

The rest was very exciting i posted it before but no need to write all that again. Just wanted to post how I got around this little bit and added some excitement to TOTB.

Scarab Sages

My party befriended Karl, and his testimony was basically all they had as far as the sanctuary fire was concerned. They were unable to unlock the safe, and even though they had the bleach and the surgeon's tools, didn't have a good enough reason to invade the Chymic Works with the Pal in tow. That charge ended up being thrown out at court for insufficient evidence from both parties in the end.


I like the idea of kidnapping Kaple if necessary to push the issue a bit. In my campaign I think the trial is going to be delayed for one day after the riot, otherwise I think the party is going to be too exhausted to tackle the Chymic works (so far on the second day of trial they've faced Brother Swarm (in the early a.m.)), participated in the Hergstag day of the trial, investigated Sanctuary, and then comes the riot. I don't think the spellcasters are going to have anything left for the Chymic works... Also, by delaying trial I'll have more space to drop hints about V&G if necessary. But I do think the hints at Sanctuary are enough, especially if the party has found the surgical tools. Karl can also tell the party that V&G visited the Sanctuary, although I suspect most parties won't return to interview him further.

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