In Golarion, once you've been judged, you can't come back. Everyone who has been reincarnated, raised, resurrected, etc., was still in line in the Boneyard at the time.
You're missing an important distinction: "Since once a soul becomes a petitioner it's moved beyond the point at which the soul can be resurrected (or otherwise brought back to life) by mortal magic is gone ..."
There are beings in Golarion that have been been reincarnated, raised, resurrected, etc., after being judged by Pharasma. This simply came about as the result of a higher power. The dwarven death deity Magrim, for example, will sometimes reforge souls in order to return them to Golarion.
Back on topic, though, most are likely to agree that raising Aroden if a feat beyond mortal magic anyway.
Before the death of Aroden, gods couldn't die either, or at least not quite that way.The Peacock Spirit and Curchanus aren't exactly sprightly. Plus I believe the Mother of Zon Kuthon and Shelyn was a goddess of love who was destroyed.
Exactly. Gods had died before Aroden met his end. Aroden's death was simply the first and only time a god was killed by a mortal power, something thought impossible until it actually occurred; we may not know the details, but we know his demise was mortal in origin. Achaekek was created, at least in part, to prevent such a death from taking place ever again.
To me, the more interesting point is that while Iomedae has inherited Aroden's spot in the pantheon, her deific portfolio is different. Aroden has, numerous times, been referred to as the God of Humanity; something Iomedae is not. By the time Aroden died, she had already passed the Test of the Starstone and had her own church (which most of Aroden's follwers joined upon his death). All of that info is right in the Inner Sea World Guide. So, no more God (or Goddess) of Humanity with the most obvious consequence being "look-what-happened-to-Cheliax".
It makes me wonder about the nature of gods in Golarion when Rock from Space(TM) can make you one.
This is what I think is the only way you could have "Aroden come back". Someone, perhaps the OP's PC, would need to pass the test of Star Stone and ascend to godhood and assume whatever portfolio Aroden left behind (of which there might be none).
Then again if you do pass the test of the Star Stone, I am guessing that you assume a portfolio based on your personality, whatever your intentions might have been.
Perhaps the best way for the PC to achieve his goal is to promote the ideas and concepts of the Aroden priesthood, and if he/she is lucky they might eventually be tested and find a niche to cover perhaps as a demi-god of Iomedae, increasing her influence and ability to cover the loss of Aroden.
In the end Aroden's death is meant to create the thing that "is wrong with world" presently. The PCs are in a way Aroden's replacement as they adventure to set right the multitude of things the ail the world.
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Exactly. Gods had died before Aroden met his end. Aroden's death was simply the first and only time a god was killed by a mortal power, something thought impossible until it actually occurred; we may not know the details, but we know his demise was mortal in origin.
To use a phrase "citation needed."
I have seen no evidence that Aroden's death was due to a mortal agent. Care to share where you found this tidbit?
To use a phrase "citation needed."
I have seen no evidence that Aroden's death was due to a mortal agent. Care to share where you found this tidbit?
I have to retract it. I would have sworn I had read it somewhere, but the source I thought it was in does not contain that tidbit. At this point I'm not sure where the idea came from. All I know is that it's extremely clear in my mind for some reason.
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I have to retract it. I would have sworn I had read it somewhere, but the source I thought it was in does not contain that tidbit. At this point I'm not sure where the idea came from. All I know is that it's extremely clear in my mind for some reason.To use a phrase "citation needed."
I have seen no evidence that Aroden's death was due to a mortal agent. Care to share where you found this tidbit?
So far, I have not seen any statement indicating whether mortal or immortal agents, accidents or Aroden's own hand caused his death. (I would hope and suspect that James Jacobs decided that Aroden's death would be somewhat more meaningful than slipping on a banana peel.)
I have to retract it. I would have sworn I had read it somewhere, but the source I thought it was in does not contain that tidbit. At this point I'm not sure where the idea came from. All I know is that it's extremely clear in my mind for some reason.To use a phrase "citation needed."
I have seen no evidence that Aroden's death was due to a mortal agent. Care to share where you found this tidbit?
You may be thinking of Arazni, she was both a Demi god and Arodens Herold. She was also killed by the Whispering Tyrant. Soon after Gods stopped making pit stops on Golarion.
You may be thinking of Arazni, she was both a Demi god and Arodens Herold. She was also killed by the Whispering Tyrant. Soon after Gods stopped making pit stops on Golarion.
You're probably right; I likely mashed parts of Arazni's background with that of Aroden. Somehow without messing up the details of her death, and then unlife.
I'm going to say I must have been going 72 hours without sleep, or ... something ... and leave it at that. :P
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As far as I recall he also said his soul has been judged by Pharasma - which makes a resurrection plan hard to work.How does that make resurrection tricky? Being judged by Pharasma generally means your soul is sent on to the relevant god or afterlife. Lots of people get resurrected after that happens.From the Ask JJ thread:
In Golarion, once you've been judged, you can't come back. Everyone who has been reincarnated, raised, resurrected, etc., was still in line in the Boneyard at the time.Now followup question, does a soul become a petitioner at the instant of death or do they have to wait until they reach the boneyard for their actual designation?The timing of when a soul becomes a petitioner is fluid and variable. Since once a soul becomes a petitioner it's moved beyond the point at which the soul can be resurrected (or otherwise brought back to life) by mortal magic is gone, and since there are multiple limits on how long something can be dead and still be brought back to life depending on the spell and caster level in question, we can never really say exactly how long it takes a soul to travel to the Boneyard, get judged, and be sent on for its final reward or punishment. It's different for everyone.
Ohh I was waiting for this to get referenced as I was reading along. Anyways personal fun aside at seeing something you talked about referenced by people I would say build the character and talk to your GM and let him worry about it just be ready for a lot of what was referenced before about him maybe never finding him and becoming something of a tragic hero. I will say from my side though as a GM I would chomp at the bit to GM a character like this he's got scope and big plans that just beg to get told and so long as the player is willing to follow them out wherever they lead good or bad we will craft an excellent tale. I think at their core all PC's really need stories like this that are way bigger then themselves or anything they can truly accomplish as it is what makes them real heroes and figures in history as they are the ones who aimed for the stars and gunned for it hell or high water.
I think that's when the gods decided to create the Mantis God who's name I can't spell and am to lazy to look up. It's job is to kill anything that might threaten the gods.
Actually, he existed as far back as Azlant... He was just worshipped as a god of monsters and blood, then, though. See the Serpent's Skull AP for more info. I believe I read somewhere (though I don't recall where, exactly, so it might have been nothing more than fan theory on the boards) that Achaekek was, instead "remade" after Aroden's death into a guardian of the gods. It's worth noting that the gods, in general, didn't know what happened to Aroden's, or even why. Except, maybe, Pharasma, but her lips have been sealed... both before and after his death, causing some bad blood between herself and other gods, but especially Iomedae. And causing her worshippers to question whether or not she even knew... and for her to seemingly almost lose an entire portfolio element (prophecy).
And anyway, I kind of thought Achaekek was "remade" (or whatever) after Arazni's death (at the hands of Tar-Baphon, Aroden's old, previously defeated nemesis), instead of Aroden's.
My question is "did Aroden have any children while he was running around for thousands of years, and beyond". Seems at least slightly likely, considering how much he "interacted" with mortals... and the fact that, like, all of his heralds and many important people were female, might have meant he had a particular taste for "the ladies", if you catch my drift, though that's complete speculation on my part.
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This reminding me of the story of how Balder in Norse mythology died. His brothers were told by Hel that if they cloud convince every living thing to weep for him she would give him back and allow him to live. Only one person refused, Loki in disguise, and Hel did not give him back. Loki was severely punished because of the whole ordeal.
Now, the character on a quest to revive Aroden might have to do something similar. Visit Pharasma in person, gain an impossible task, and come very close to completing it only to be thwarted by the main villain.
This reminding me of the story of how Balder in Norse mythology died. His brothers were told by Hel that if they cloud convince every living thing to weep for him she would give him back and allow him to live. Only one person refused, Loki in disguise, and Hel did not give him back. Loki was severely punished because of the whole ordeal.
Now, the character on a quest to revive Aroden might have to do something similar. Visit Pharasma in person, gain an impossible task, and come very close to completing it only to be thwarted by the main villain.
I think Pharasma is less into games than Hel and would just say "No." That said, if she were to set such a task, she might as well go with the same deal as with Baldr.
Good luck getting Rovugug to weep for Aroden.
I think he may have very well caused his own death. Perhaps with his prophesy he saw something truly horrifying in the future of Golarion, and the only way to prevent it was to destroy prophesy itself.
He and Pharasma shared the prophesy domain, and she is staying fully silent on the matter, to the point of destroying relationships. Keeping quiet about the truth is perhaps important to her. Simple professionalism, or something deeper?
A group of mortals tried to find out what killed Aroden, and they succeeded. Then the entire group committed suicide. They couldn't handle something about the answer. Okay, maybe they witnessed "a big horrible fight between Aroden and Asmodeus" (and Asmodeus seems canny enough to kill a god and stay quiet about it if it served his ends) but that doesn't seem real enough.
My favorite interpretation is hinted at in Kaer Maga. The Gates of Dream are covered with what look like patterns of stars, except for a completely blank spot -- and the locals seem to think that the stars have been disappearing, that the void has grown larger over the years.
"Yet even the dreaded nightwaves are not enough to fill the nightmares of great heroes. Rumors of more powerful nightshades are whispered fearfully in certain circles—creatures of such immense power that their mere existence can drain entire planets of life in a matter of weeks. If such monstrosities truly exist, then all life may be but a fleeting spark in the dark folds of a forever-doomed future." [From the Bestiary 2]
So in my game, if it ever comes up, I'm going to give serious thought to the idea that Aroden tried to destroy prophesy because he learned the Golarion was going to be destroyed by, essentially, an intelligent black hole.
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I think he may have very well caused his own death. Perhaps with his prophesy he saw something truly horrifying in the future of Golarion, and the only way to prevent it was to destroy prophesy itself.
Aroden, God-Emperor of Golarion, He who set into Motion the Golden Path