Spell Resistance question

[Marios]

Hello,

last night in my gaming session arose the question of wether SR takes effect against Glitterdust. I was certain that it should since the spell directly affected the creature but my players pointed out the spell entry which stated "Spell Resistance No".

Checking the "When Spell Resistance Applies" paragraph, it states under effect spells

Quote:

Effect Spells: Most effect spells summon or create something and are not subject to spell resistance. Sometimes, however, spell resistance applies to effect spells, usually to those that act upon a creature more or less directly, such as web.

So, a caster trying to Web a creature must defeat its spell resistance first, right? Yet, Web's spell entry states "Spell Resistance No".

So...what's going on here? Does this simply mean, that the effect spell in general is not subject to spell resistance, but spell resistance still applies if there is a creature with SR in the area of the effect (and it applies for that creature only) or am I missing something?

Thanks a lot for your insight!

[concerro]

If is says Spell Resistance "No" then SR(spell resistance) does not apply.

Here is the relevant text from the magic chapter.

Quote:

Spell Resistance

Spell resistance is a special defensive ability. If your spell is being resisted by a creature with spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature's spell resistance for the spell to affect that creature. The defender's spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks. Include any adjustments to your caster level to this caster level check.

The Spell Resistance entry and the descriptive text of a spell description tell you whether spell resistance protects creatures from the spell. In many cases, spell resistance applies only when a resistant creature is targeted by the spell, not when a resistant creature encounters a spell that is already in place.

The terms “object” and “harmless” mean the same thing for spell resistance as they do for saving throws. A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by such spells without forcing the caster to make a caster level check.

If SR has "no" then SR does not protect against the spell in question.

[Marios]

If this is the case then PHB contradicts itself since it specifically states that SR applies to Web (using Web as an example of an effect spell SR applies to) and then, in the description of the Web spell, it says "Spell Resistance No".

So, what is correct?

[concerro]

Marios wrote:

If this is the case then PHB contradicts itself since it specifically states that SR applies to Web (using Web as an example of an effect spell SR applies to) and then, in the description of the Web spell, it says "Spell Resistance No".

So, what is correct?

The PHB would be incorrect with that statement. I also see that statement was copied over to Pathfinder.

[concerro]

I will press the FAQ button in your opening post to bring it to the devs attention so they can fix it. You can do it also.

[Howie23]

On which page does SR show as applying to web? Is this a 3.5 question or a PF question?

In general, conjuration spells don't have SR. They bring an effect into existence; the effect doesn't affect creatures directly, but may affect them indirectly.

Glitterdust has no SR. It brings into existence golden colored dust. That dust is the spell effect. The dust affects creatures, not the magic of the spell.

[concerro]

It is in the glossary in the PRD. It is also in the SRD for 3.5.. I just checked both of them.

[Marios]

Check my original post for the quote from PHB. It's in page 565 under the paragraph "When Spell Resistance Applies", clause "Effect spells".

Unfortunately the "..., such as web." ending of the paragraph does not exist in the PHB. I actually quoted from PRD not the PHB. I thought it should be the same (or even better as PRD should always be updated with the latest rules). Maybe I was wrong in that!

Anyway, The obvious response to what you say is that the dust conjured by Glitterdust is magical (that's why it has the ability to blind) hence SR should apply.

Still, I still am not certain as to which is correct...

[Derwalt]

The dust itself is noget magical. It is simply golden dust that is conjured (I think). The magic part is the conjuration of the dust.

[concerro]

The magic chapter details magic. The glossary(Pathfinder) and the special ability section(3.5) just have a bad example.

PHB(3.5)

CRB(Pathfinder). I am assuming you are speaking of the CRB(Core Rule Book).

If you say PHB people will get confused. :)

[Marios]

concerro wrote:

CRB(Pathfinder). I am assuming you are speaking of the CRB(Core Rule Book).

If you say PHB people will get confused. :)

Indeed, you are absolutely correct! So many years using 3.5 and less than a year in Pathfinder, what can I say? ;)

[Howie23]

Yep. I was confused. The SR entry on page 565 is in error regarding web.

This looks like an error carried over from 3.0. Web in 3.0 had SR=yes:

Web
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Webs in a 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: Reflex negates (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Congrats on finding a 9 year old error.

As far as your question, use the spell description, which is more specific, and which, if nothing else, serves as an exception to the erroneous general rule. Specific trumps general.

[Marios]

Howie23 wrote:

Congrats on finding a 9 year old error.

Yeay for me! :)

Do I get a cookie? ;)

Howie23 wrote:

As far as your question, use the spell description, which is more specific, and which, if nothing else, serves as an exception to the erroneous general rule. Specific trumps general.

Will do! Hmmm... should I post a message concerning ther error in PRD? I guess so...

Thanks a lot everybody!