| Skylancer4 |
Okay, let's say you have Feral Combat Training(Claw).
You take Martial Versatility(Feral Combat Training).
At this point you now have FCT (Claw), FCT (Bite), FCT (Slam), etc. FCT for all the natural weapons in the group. We are in agreement right? This cost you one feat Martial Versatility (FCT).
Now, the Weapon Focus(Claw) you took to get Feral Combat Training applies to all natural weapons and unarmed strikes.
If later you take Weapon Specialization(Claw), it will apply to all natural attacks and unarmed strikes.
This would be the case if you had the Martial Mastery feat. But you don't, you only have the Martial Versatility (FCT) which only creates an effect of spreading FCT across all the natural weapon group. You get a working copy of one single feat (in our example FCT) for all natural weapons listed in the natural weapons group from Martial Versatility.
Dragon Style, to all natural attacks and unarmed strikes.
Yep FCT states "While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike." Notice the wording, the only feats you get are those with the IUS prereq, OTHER effects as well can augment your natural weapons as if they were an unarmed strike. Everthing from this point on in your list is a "no go."
Greater Weapon Specialization, to all natural attacks and unarmed strikes.
Improved Critical, to all natural attacks and unarmed strikes.
Penetrating Strike, to all natural attacks and unarmed strikes.There are many more.
So, yeah you have these feats, but what are they all lacking? IUS as a prereq. Having WF(Claw), IUS, FCT (Claw) and Martial Versatility (FCT) means you get nothing from the above feats. In order for you to get something from them you'd have to take the feat, then take Martial Versatility for the feat at which point it would "spread" to the rest of your natural weapon group. Or you could just take the feats for a specific weapon you use regulary and then when you get Martial Mastery it would spread all your combat feats out to the weapon group the specified weapon was attached to.
Weirdo
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Actually, this is an interesting case of linguistic ambiguity.
If the developers had written "you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as feats and effects that augment an unarmed strike" it would obviously work with Weapon Focus, etc. If it read "you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as non-feat effects that augment an unarmed strike" then it obviously wouldn't work with Weapon Focus. As is, it could be read in either direction depending on whether the first clause is interpreted to exclude feats that don't require IUS but do augment unarmed strikes. Similar questions have come up in court cases. I mentioned the question to a linguist blogger I know and will let you know if she comments on the issue.
BBT, any comment on my question regarding whether unarmed strikes now count as natural weapons instead of just the reverse being true?
I'm playing with an Unarmed Fighter/Druid build and am very interested to see how people on this board think FCT should work.
Weirdo
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Please explain how. Despite what some political pundits seem to believe, you cannot win a debate simply by repeating your position.
You appear to be claiming that because unarmed strikes are in the natural weapons group, the whole combo is circular. But as far as I can tell, that is not the case because Martial Versatility only opens FCT up in one direction: it is only half a circle.
Martial Versatility lets you replace "one selected weapon" with "all weapons in that group" ONCE, for the part of the feat that that reads "Select a weapon. With that weapon..." That means that Martial Versatility (FCT) turns
Treat one selected natural weapon as an unarmed strike for X purposes
into
treat all weapons in the natural weapons group as unarmed strikes for X purposes
and not
treat weapons in the natural weapons group as any other weapon in the natural weapon group for X purposes.
If you had another ability that said "if an effect enhances a natural weapon attack, you can use it with UAS" then the feat combo would in fact be fully circular. Alone, MV(FCT) does not have that effect.
I would like it if you were correct because of the options it opens up for my Unarmed Fighter/Druid. But I do not think that by using your arguments on this thread I could justify it to a skeptical DM.
| Skylancer4 |
I believe you are forgetting the "as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike" part of Feral Combat Training.
I didn't forget anything, I covered the point of feats and I guess will have to explain a little more. The feat's language seperates feats in general from the effects that work with FCT. If you are going to consider feats as "effects" (which I consider a stretch) you need to recognize the wording used splits feats out of the effects that work on FCT. They used a particular wording for a reason.
Looking at the wording we now have a certain subset of feats that are called out to work (feats with IUS prereqs) and the rest of the "effects." By stating a subset that works, by default the rest of that set (feats) don't work.