What do we do with Grey area?

[Thefurmonger]

Hey all.

So my wife asked me a question that has no anwser and it got me thinking about how many of those there are in PFRPG.

In a home game we ask our GM, but here that does not work.

A lot of post here are directed to the rules forum, but some time there is simply no anwser.

I am sure you have all run into this in the past, what do you do?

For the curious her question.....

Spoiler:

My wife is playing a Tattooed Sorcerer found HERE

She makes use of MANY Ioun stones (god I hope I don't need to say what those are)

Anyway she is nabbing an Improved Familair (one of the ones that can use items per the FAQ)

She wants to have it have Ioun stones too.

That is not the question, that is fine.

Here is the question.....

When it turns back into a Tattoo, do the stones go with it?
What about a little set of clothes? (If its a brownie for example)

If yes, then what about the wand tucked in its belt?

If yes, then why could someone not give the familliar all it can carry before it goes tattoo so its all safe and sound?

as you can see its a can of worms.

And is not covered in the rules at all.

I have trouble saying "No" as...

A. there is no rule that says no.

B. Brownies are called out to be in clothes, seemes stupid that they fall off when it becomes a tattoo.

So what do you all do when the rules are silent?

[hexa3]

I Would Rule That Whatever It Is Equipped With In The Tattoo, Is Also Equipped With When Summoned, No More, No Less.

[cblome59]

Pathfinder is a permissive system. If it doesn't say you take em with you, you don't. Basically she'd have to pick up the equipment it was carrying and/or put it on, whenever it 'tattooed.

[Thefurmonger]

Clint Blome wrote:

Pathfinder is a permissive system. If it doesn't say you take em with you, you don't. Basically she'd have to pick up the equipment it was carrying and/or put it on, whenever it 'tattooed.

so when her brownie turns into a tattoo all of its clothes fall off?

[BigNorseWolf]

thefurmonger wrote:

so when her brownie turns into a tattoo all of its clothes fall off?

I thought it was tequila that did that...

Unless Mike Brock sweeps in and answers it will vary from DM to DM, as is the case whenever you have a bizarre corner case with no clear raw explanation.

With your tatoo its kind of a minor thing, but its a major thing for summoners Edielons.

If it matters you ask the DM before hand.

[Michael Brock]

Mike Brock is not even going to address THAT. Definitely to brave enough.

[Michael Grancey]

That doesn't sound vwey permissive.

Personally I would go with it being able to wear and carry stuff but when in a tattoo form, access to that item is gone, so if you need the wand your familiar has as a tattoo, you have to summon it out to be able to use it.

[Thefurmonger]

Michael Grancey wrote:

That doesn't sound vwey permissive.

Personally I would go with it being able to wear and carry stuff but when in a tattoo form, access to that item is gone, so if you need the wand your familiar has as a tattoo, you have to summon it out to be able to use it.

Thats what I was going with but with there being no rule for it I was not sure.

[Selgard]

My own opinion:

When there is a grey area you have to ask:
How can I follow the intent of the rule without being abusive?

assuming a brownie that'd mean:
Its clothing. Whatever it happens to be wearing.
Any magical items its using.

Thats not abusive- and they are clothed creatures afterall.
Now, abusive? "Well lets just put a full load on that lil brownie to increase our loot haul".

Abusive? "lets give the brownie the McGuffin so no one can find it".

Is that a rule? No.
But if you aren't Trying to abuse the tat'd brownie then it'll likely never come up anyway. Its only when you try to abuse it that you'll really force some DM to make a decision on it.

-S

[Michael Grancey]

Well, I would let the brownie hold it if they acutally could hold it, something too big for it wouldn't work and honestly, tt wouldn't be a good idea because if the bad guys know about the whole tattoo/summon ability yeah, be prepared to be kidnapped, have the tattoo be "removed" or if its on a limb lose the limb.

I would also put a non-specific limit on what reasonable.

[Thefurmonger]

Selgard wrote:

My own opinion:

When there is a grey area you have to ask:
How can I follow the intent of the rule without being abusive?

assuming a brownie that'd mean:
Its clothing. Whatever it happens to be wearing.
Any magical items its using.

Thats not abusive- and they are clothed creatures afterall.
Now, abusive? "Well lets just put a full load on that lil brownie to increase our loot haul".

Abusive? "lets give the brownie the McGuffin so no one can find it".

Is that a rule? No.
But if you aren't Trying to abuse the tat'd brownie then it'll likely never come up anyway. Its only when you try to abuse it that you'll really force some DM to make a decision on it.

-S

Sounds like a great way to go.

I am glad that (it seems) most people would say it keeps what it normaly has with it.

If the Brownie (Or Imp, or whatever) has an amulet, a wand and 2 ioun stones, it goes in with them, and comes out with them too.

Thanks for the help all.

[BigNorseWolf]

The good thing is that its a minor character point, its not like you're basing your character around the fuzzy area of charging with two lances or something. If the brownie turns naked well then you have a naked brownie, its not going to matter 99.9999 percent of the time if it needs a few rounds getting dressed.

[Thefurmonger]

and your 100% right. most of the time it wont matter.

it was more of an example of grey area.

I really appreciate all the input.

[Arnim Thayer]

Selgard wrote:

My own opinion: Its only when you try to abuse it that you'll really force some DM to make a decision on it.

Well said!

[Jiggy]

Technically it's the GM's job to make rulings on gray areas. It's nice, though, when the player can make the GM's job easier by not being abusive and therefore not really needing a ruling.

So basically, what some others have already said. :)

[Lord Boris]

The way that I try to handle grey area when I am GM is that I do a quick rules check to see if it's already been clarified one way or the other, and if no solution is found fairly quickly, I go by the basics of "what makes the most logical sense" and "will x solution allow the flow of the game to proceed without unreasonable disruption." Ultimately players will always find a way to break a situation, and it's up to the GM to be able to think on their feet sometimes to ensure that the flow and fun of the table can proceed.