The ability to take 10 needs there to be no negative consequences for failure, and requires that the character not be distracted (say, by a combat going on around him).
Take 20 does not have that restriction, but takes a lot of time.
Yes, you can take 20 on skills where you can't take 10, but you need to have the time to do it (and getting hit in the face by a greataxe would put a serious crimp on your ability to get that time).
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Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).
Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties). Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).
When you're not allowed to take 20 is purely situational--although certain skills don't have many situations where taking 20 is possible. Heal, for example, is usually time sensitive, with your patient slipping further away every time you don't succeed.
You also can't take 20 on something that has a definite effect if you fail (for example, failing by 5 or more on disarming a trap sets it off, so you cannot take 20).
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The ability to take 10 needs there to be no negative consequences for failure, and requires that the character not be distracted (say, by a combat going on around him).
Take 20 does not have that restriction, but takes a lot of time.
Yes, you can take 20 on skills where you can't take 10, but you need to have the time to do it (and getting hit in the face by a greataxe would put a serious crimp on your ability to get that time).
Ok, maybe I am reading your post wrong, But you have that backwards, Possibility of failure does not do anything for Take 10, It is if there is a possibity of Failure you can't take 20. Also there can't be any distractions for Take 20.
Ok, maybe I am reading your post wrong, But you have that backwards, Possibility of failure does not do anything for Take 10, It is if there is a possibity of Failure you can't take 20. Also there can't be any distractions for Take 20.The ability to take 10 needs there to be no negative consequences for failure, and requires that the character not be distracted (say, by a combat going on around him).
Take 20 does not have that restriction, but takes a lot of time.
Yes, you can take 20 on skills where you can't take 10, but you need to have the time to do it (and getting hit in the face by a greataxe would put a serious crimp on your ability to get that time).
Far more likely that I got them the wrong way round than you misreading my post, to be honest. :p
The end result is the same, though: Yes, you can take 20 on skills that don't allow take 10. But you need the time to do it.
When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10.
When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20.
Well, if you're distracted you can do neither.
You can't take 10 if you're in immediate danger; you can't take 20 if you're faced with threats.
Is immediate danger a threat? I'd say yes, so if you can't take 10, then you can't take 20.
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Ah, specifically on aid another and Use Magic Device...sorry didn't catch that.
Aid Another would not work, because you get one chance per attempt the person you're aiding makes.
Use Magic Device likely does not work because there is a consequence for failure--rolling a natural 1 means you cannot try again on that particular magic item for 24 hours.
As house rules, a lot of DMs allow taking 20 on skills if the only consequence is on natural 1s. But for official games like PFS, you wouldn't be able to.
Aid Another is a standard action so Take 20 probably won't be possible due to time constraints. Use Magic Device
Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.
For Use Magic Device, most of the time you are going to be restricted by time constraints also. The only use I can see where you can Take 20 would be to Decipher a Written Scroll. Everything else is generally a standard action.
Use Magic Device likely does not work because there is a consequence for failure--rolling a natural 1 means you cannot try again on that particular magic item for 24 hours.
It's rolling a natural 1 and failing. If you don't fail, then you can retry the skill. This can be important for emulating where you are simply determining a value instead of success.
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For Use Magic Device, most of the time you are going to be restricted by time constraints also. The only use I can see where you can Take 20 would be to Decipher a Written Scroll. Everything else is generally a standard action.
For combat this is true. The common exception I've found is using wands of cure light wounds once combat is over to get everyone back to full. In this case, it would be important if you could take 20 on Use Magic Device.
It's rolling a natural 1 and failing. If you don't fail, then you can retry the skill. This can be important for emulating where you are simply determining a value instead of success.
This is true. In the case of Use Magic Device though, I don't see any use behind taking 20 on this skill when a natural 1 will not cause a failure. Although if you can show me a situation where a high UMD roll matters and time does not, I'll certainly give you that. So to amend my statement for full legal disclosure, you can't take 20 on Use Magic Device unless you have a high enough skill bonus that you can't fail on a natural 1.
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Aid Another is a standard action so Take 20 probably won't be possible due to time constraints. Use Magic Device
For Use Magic Device, most of the time you are going to be restricted by time constraints also. The only use I can see where you can Take 20 would be to Decipher a Written Scroll. Everything else is generally a standard action.Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.
Deciphering writing is a secret roll by the GM.
Linguistics
(Int; Trained Only)You are skilled at working with language, in both its spoken and written forms. You can speak multiple languages, and can decipher nearly any tongue given enough time. Your skill in writing allows you to create and detect forgeries as well.
Check: You can decipher writing in an unfamiliar language or a message written in an incomplete or archaic form. The base DC is 20 for the simplest messages, 25 for standard texts, and 30 or higher for intricate, exotic, or very old writing. If the check succeeds, you understand the general content of a piece of writing about one page long (or the equivalent). If the check fails, make a DC 5 Wisdom check to see if you avoid drawing a false conclusion about the text. (Success means that you do not draw a false conclusion; failure means that you do.)
Both the Linguistics check and (if necessary) the Wisdom check are made secretly by the GM, so that you can't tell whether the conclusion you draw is true or false.
Dazz, I think we're pretty much in agreement. Most of the time Taking 20 won't really be an option for Use Magic Device but there are a few specific cases where it is possible.
Shar Tahl, it doesn't really matter if the check is made in secret or not. You are assumed to be making 20 checks and one of those will be a 20. There is no reason why you couldn't Take 20 if there is no penalty for failure. So if you have a Use Magic Device check of +10 you can Take 20 on the check for intricate, exotic, or very old writing with a DC of 30. You would also need a Wisdom modifier of -4 or better since you can Take 10 on those checks. If your Wisdom is a 1 or --, then you can't Take 20 on those checks because you can have a penalty for failure.