darth_gator
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Reversing a grapple is just like initiating a new grapple.
According to Core Rulebook, pg 199, "As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe...", followed by (CRB pg 201), "...you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action...Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler..." Finally, (CRB pg 200), "Once you are grappling an opponent,...[a grapple check] allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action to spent to maintain the grapple)."
Since you can only perform a single standard action in a round, you will have to wait until the following round to attempt any of the "extra" grapple actions while maintaining the grapple.
| pres man |
@darth_gator: My question has more to do with the "once you are grappling an opponent" part than the standard action part. In a grapple, there is a grappler and a grapplee, but both receive the "grappled" condition. So the question then becomes is a grappler considered to have already been grappled when the grapplee reverses the grapple? If yes (since they had the grappled condition), then new grappler (former grapplee) should get to do one of the additional actions.
@Feral: I'm not sure what you mean by laughable. Do you mean for the original grappler? I would think this kind of ruling would make it more interesting for the original grapplee.
Dazz
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You do not get one of the additional grappling actions when you do a reversal. In order to have one of the additional effects, you have to succeed on a grapple check to maintain the grapple. When doing a reversal, you are making a check to (as is your choice) break the grapple or "become the grappler." Thus, you have to wait one round before you can do anything like pin them or do damage.
What I believe Feral was saying was that it would become very risky to start a grapple, because your opponent (who you grabbed) would be able to pin you before you would physically be able to.
That being said, as a house rule in my games I allow these extra actions if you succeed your grapple check by a high amount (say, by 10 points or so), reversal or no. Not being in the core rules, that's up to you if you want to do.
| Quandary |
The Grapple rules are kind of f%*%ed in several ways.
I don't think you resolve this issue 100% clearly relying just on RAW,
although I am 100% sure the INTENT is just to make you 'the controller' (no Move, Damage, Pin options),
i.e. the same outcome as establishing a new Grapple...
I don't want to say it's 100% equivalent to establishing a new Grapple, because there could be special effects that certain characters have when initiating a new Grapple, and those may not be meant to apply here.
There is a similar vagueness about what happens when you 'reverse a Grapple' when you are PINNED.
Paizo's stated it is only 1 check to escape a Pin, as it's just a stronger version of Grapple, not an additional Condition,
but the question there is: whether 'Reversing the Grapple' in that case would mean the original Pinner is now Pinned themself.
I am also 100% sure that the intent is for them now to just be Grappled, but that isn't clear per RAW.
At least CMB/CMD is clear now... Except those Untyped AC bonuses 8-/
| Pendin Fust |
Greater Grapple allows you to do a grapple check as a Move action, this would allow you to reverse AND check to Pin in the same round.
If You Are Grappled: If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can). Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that doesn't require two hands to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you. See the grappled condition for additional details. If you are pinned, your actions are very limited. See the pinned condition in Conditions for additional details.
It's a standard action to reverse a grapple.