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Hey folks,
So I was deeply disappointed that the ARG didn't feature even a short chapter on my favorite goblinoid: the bugbear. So, for those who might want to use bugbears in their campaigns (as I plan to) I whipped up two versions of the bugbear. One is a translation of the Bestiary bugbear (which is a bit different than the bugbear that was in the ARG playtest) and the other is one that could be suitable as a player character.
Critiques are welcome (If there are errors in the advanced bugbear or if you feel the standard power level bugbear is lacking; also the language array is up for debate). Considering given the standard bugbear intimidating prowess as a bonus feat to knock him up to 11 RP, or even giving him skill bonus (+2 intimidate) and skill bonus (+1 stealth, +1 perception) instead of his current skill bonus (+1 Stealth, +1 intimidate).
Also, anyone know if the two feats for bugbears found in Classic Monsters Revisited will ever be OGL?
Bugbear, Advanced
Humanoid (goblinoid) (0 RP)
Size
Medium (0 RP)
Speed
Normal (0 RP)
Ability Score Modifiers
Greater paragon (+4 Str, +2 Con, –2 Cha) (2 RP)
Languages
Standard (Common, Goblin; Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Gnome, Halfling, and Orc.) (0 RP)
Racial Abilities
Advanced Strength (+2) (4 RP)
Advanced Dexterity (+2) (4 RP)
Darkvision 60 ft. (2 RP)
Improved natural armor (+1) (1 RP)
Natural armor (+1) (2 RP)
Sneaky (5 RP)
Fearsome (5 RP)
Stalker (1 RP)
Total RP: 26 RP
Bugbear, Standard
Humanoid (goblinoid) (0 RP)
Size
Medium (0 RP)
Speed
Normal (0 RP)
Ability Score Modifiers
Greater paragon (+4 Str, +2 Con, –2 Cha) (2 RP)
Languages
Standard (Common, Goblin; Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Gnome, Halfling, and Orc.) (0 RP)
Racial Abilities
Darkvision 60 ft. (2 RP)
Natural armor (+1) (2 RP)
Skill Bonus (+1 Stealth, +1 Intimidate) (2 RP)
Stalker (1 RP)
Total RP: 9 RP
Vital stats
Bugbear, male 6 ft. 1 in. 330 lbs. 2d12 ×7 lbs.
Bugbear, female 5 ft. 9 in. 290 lbs. 2d12 ×7 lbs
Bugbear 15 years +1d4 +1d6 +2d6
Alternate Racial Traits for Standard Bugbears
Intimidating Prowess: Bugbears are known for their ability to terrify their victims. Some use their great strength as to leverage their terrifying tactics. Bugbears with this racial trait gain Intimidating Prowess as a bonus feat. This alternate racial feature replaces Skill Bonus (+1 Stealthy, +1 Intimidate).
Quick not Tough: While all bugbears are physically powerful, some are a bit quicker and more coordinated than they are tough. Bugbears with this alternate racial trait have an ability modifier of +4 Str, +2 Dex, –2 Cha rather than +4 Str, +2 Con, –2 Cha.
Primal Scent: Some bugbears are a throwback to a more primal incarnation of their race. These bugbears gain the scent special ability, but they lose their Natural Armor and Skill Bonus (+1 Stealthy, +1 Intimidate).
Hunter: Some bugbears focus on tracking their quarry in woodlands; these bugbears must be more keen eyed to track their quarry. Bugbears with this racial trait get Skill Focus (perception) as a bonus feat. This alternate racial trait replaces Skill Bonus (+1 Stealthy, +1 Intimidate).
Favored Class Bonuses
Barbarian: Add a +1/2 bonus on Intimidate checks and Survival checks.
Ranger: Gain a +1/2 bonus on damage dealt to humans.
Rogue: Add a +1 bonus on the rogue’s sneak attack damage rolls during the surprise round or before the target has acted in combat.
Fighter: Add a +1/2 circumstance bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls with morningstars (maximum bonus +4). This bonus does not stack with Critical Focus.
Why? Because of the ability-boni? Fluff-wise the bugbear is absolutely the worst race to play in a group. Sadistic a@*%#@~, no empathy, no feelings. Please tell, why it is your favoured race, there are no reasons, but mechanical ones, I'd say.
I'm glad there are no options for PC-Bugbears in the guide. There are a lot of monster-races that are better suited / interesting for a player character.
Why? Because of the ability-boni? Fluff-wise the bugbear is absolutely the worst race to play in a group. Sadistic a$~*&~~, no empathy, no feelings. Please tell, why it is your favoured race, there are no reasons, but mechanical ones, I'd say.
I'm glad there are no options for PC-Bugbears in the guide. There are a lot of monster-races that are better suited / interesting for a player character.
Uh, have you even read the ARG? There are a lot of races that don't even work as well as bugbears for standard PCs (ex. ogres).
Also, great job on just assuming I wanted official stats for bugbears because I like them mechanically... since my intent is to offer them as a PC race in a goblinoid game (in which the PCs are Goblins, Hobgoblins and Bugbears). You know what they say about assuming.
Historically they have been portrayed as either expert ambushers (AD&D) to basically serial killers (Pathfinder). Within that spectrum there are plenty of playable bugbear character concepts. I also like them as villians and enemies for more standard parties and have written up one bugbear as a botched resurrection Jason Voorhees (complete with green hag overprotecting 'mother'). I've also used a group of them as a mercenary unit who were tolerated by humans in a war due to their tactical acumen.
Your preferences are not the same as others; can't believe that still needs to be said. If you aren't interested in bugbears, this thread is not for you.
If one is a hunter, would not one benefit from a skill bonus to Survival, which is actually used for tracking, rather than perception, which is not?
As for the rest, I am not going to accuse you of being a powergamer, but I am curious as to what you find so appealing about bugbears.
If one is a hunter, would not one benefit from a skill bonus to Survival, which is actually used for tracking, rather than perception, which is not?
As for the rest, I am not going to accuse you of being a powergamer, but I am curious as to what you find so appealing about bugbears.
The bestiary bugbear has no survival bonus so I offered survival bonuses (which make perfect sense) only in alternate traits and in favored class options. I like to stay as close as possible to the standard interpretation of the pathfinder monsters as possible (I'm in a game right now where every other damn monsters has been modified in some mindless way; as a side note, the advanced bugbear I presented should have improved natural armor again for an additional 3 RP).
I'm a DM, this is for a goblinoid game I intend to run (tribal politics with barghests; kind of treating barghests like DS9's "founders" with the PCs as either agents of those powers or possibly trying to fight against them. Orcs will kind of fill in as Cardassians: another 'evil' race, but one not enthralled by barghests). Bugbears look awesome (though I much prefer 3.5's depiction of them), they are stealthy but big which is fun, they use fear (see Sow Terror and tell me that is not a cool effect) which I find neat, they have an iconic weapon (the morningstar) that I like... I know lots of people who like the LOLRANDUMB of goblins, why is it so weird I like the methodical nature of bugbears? See my previous post for more reasons I like bugbears.
I'm quite miffed with the accusations and implications of power gaming (forgetting that I am using these as a DM). What is so overpowered about the standard bugbear I have presented? +4 Str is good, but Orcs get that as well (plus a lot of support and options in their ARG section, Orcs of Golarion and Classic Monsters Revisited).
EDIT: Wow, I did greater paragon totally wrong. I think that is a copy-paste error from the ARG playtest. No idea what kind of attribute array to give to the standard bugbear now.
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Updated the standard bugbear. This isn't really bumping the thread since it's on top anyway. (Edit: eek, on top of its board. Didn't think about forum-wide; my apologies)
Any critique or advice about this version would be appreciated. The language array seems a bit off. Any advice on how to remain as true to the original bugbear while making them on the same level as normal PC races would be appreciated.
Bugbear, Standard (Updated)
Type
Humanoid (goblinoid) (0 RP)
Size
Medium (0 RP)
Speed
Normal (0 RP)
Ability Score Modifiers
Specialized (+2 Str, +2 Con, –2 Cha) (1 RP)
Languages
Standard (Common, Goblin; Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Gnome, Halfling, and Orc.) (0 RP)
Racial Abilities
Darkvision 60 ft. (2 RP)
Natural armor (+1) (2 RP)
Skill Bonus (+1 Stealth, +1 Perception) (2 RP)
Skill Bonus (+2 Intimidate) (2 RP)
Stalker (1 RP)
Total RP: 10 RP
With purchase 10 points you can rebuild the original bugbear array. 14 Str (5 pts), 11 con (1 pt), 13 Dex (3 pts), Cha 11 (1 pt) [all before adjustments].
One should also note that the bugbear gets a penalty on the attribute (Cha) related to his prime skill (Intimidate).
I have to say I've always loved the bugbear. a sneaky thug is a really nice twist from the tiny "swarm or trap only" goblinoids that folks usually think of.
A beefy guy with a decent stealth check (for its CR) makes it preferable to me than the stock goblin or kobold encounter that most seem to use for the stealth stuff.
just drop the shield and have 'em two hand the morningstar and go to town.
-S
I like the 3.5 Bugbears because they look so cool. And I'm biased by the fact the shortly after I discovered DnD, one of the first bugbears I was exposed to was the lovable Bugbear Gisbertus, steward of Lady(later queen)Zaranda Star from the War in Tethyr novels set in the Forgotten Realms. But then he's as far from a PF bugbear as you can get.
DnD bugbears bear absolutely no resemblance to historical Bugbears. Pathfinders are closer.
If memory serves the ARG Playtest has bugbear stats.
DnD bugbears bear absolutely no resemblance to historical Bugbears. Pathfinders are closer.
Yeah, that's very true. Which is why in the campaign setting I was writing in which orcs and goblinoids are good, I thought of calling them something else. But what could I call them? I want to invoke the image of the 3.5 bugbears, but PF's version has replaced that.
If you want the 3.5 versions Aesthetic. I would say a Barix is the best fit. It is a more Monstrous Humanoid race rather than Humanoid(Goblin).
And who said Goblins and Orcs aren't good? Or at least can't be? Even in Pathfinder.
If you want the 3.5 versions Aesthetic. I would say a Barix is the best fit. It is a more Monstrous Humanoid race rather than Humanoid(Goblin).
Barix? Never heard of those. Where are they from and where can I get information about them? I'm quite curious.
And who said Goblins and Orcs aren't good? Or at least can't be? Even in Pathfinder.
Some of the other posters. I just meant the 'look' of bugbears in Pathfinder as opposed to Dnd. And yes, orcs and the goblinoids can be good, it's just hard considering their cultures encourage evil behavior. Maybe it would be easier just to drop my own versions of those races in golarion, if there is any empty places I could place them.
And who said Goblins and Orcs aren't good? Or at least can't be? Even in Pathfinder.
I'm pretty sure they're basing these assumptions (the players in question) on the attribute point value assigned to each by Pathfinder (i.e. both have multiple penalties which is often a turn off for "optimizers").
I don't really like them as presented by Pathfinder, but I also don't use them as PC races, so for me they're fine as-is.
I'm unfamiliar with "Barix," as well.
I was meaning Alignment wise...
Barix is a rare myth from Gothic lore. They look similar to 3.5's bugbears. They were renowned as gentle beings unless you damaged or threatened Them, Their people, or the forests they called home.
Think Wookies from star wars.
I was meaning Alignment wise...
Barix is a rare myth from Gothic lore. They look similar to 3.5's bugbears. They were renowned as gentle beings unless you damaged or threatened Them, Their people, or the forests they called home.
Think Wookies from star wars.
Gotcha, so very easily recreated with the ARG.
Re: Whale - I don't see anything wrong with the versions you presented, at a glance. Additionally, with the seemingly random decisions Pathfinder made in assigning points to races in their own book, I think an 11 point value will be just fine. I usually run a range of 9-11 points for my LA 0 races. I figure 1 over or under is acceptable and anything above either needs fixed (for standard, not advanced) or needs tuned as an advanced race instead.
I was meaning Alignment wise...
Barix is a rare myth from Gothic lore. They look similar to 3.5's bugbears. They were renowned as gentle beings unless you damaged or threatened Them, Their people, or the forests they called home.
Think Wookies from star wars.
They sound perfect. Is there any site I could read more about them? I searched google with no luck :(. You mean 'Gothic' as in the Germanic Goths, right?
Yes, Germanic Goths. Again rare myths. I only learned about them by accident when looking in a specialty book store for odd or little known myths.
EDIT: sorry whale for taking so long to say this. The races seem balanced from what I have seen.
I can't remember the thread, but in one of Da'ath's ARG based threads I posted my opinions on races.
It basically boils down to how many classes does the race synergize with. If it is 7+ of the 11 core classes then you are fine. If it is less you need to rework the race.