I am building a human archer with a fighter base and I was curious of any reasons why I wouldn't want to wear heavy armor sense I am proficient in it with my fighter base already. I understand it will hurt me on some skill checks such as climbing, swimming, ect but being a ranged damage dealer are there any other "cons" to wearing heavy armor? I am a new player, so I am just learning the rules.
Typically an archer fighter would have a pretty high dexterity. Heavier armor has a more severe limit on dexterity bonus applied to AC compared to lighter armor. People would check their dex modifier and check available armor and try to get a nice balance.
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Movement and skill check penalties will be important at lower levels, but armor training eliminates the movement penalties and reduces the skill penalties.
Personally, I might look to upgrade to a breastplate at early levels as soon as I could (certainly by level 3). As I get close to level 7 I'd be looking to have a set of magic full plate. Either way you should be able to spare a feat or two to act as a switch hitter (power attack + quickdraw, say) in addition to the archery feats.
if you can afford it--mithril heavy armor gives you most of your dex back
Protoman, you are incorrect.
Chain Shirt: +4AC +4max dex = +8 total
Breastplate: +6AC +3max dex = +9 total
Platemail: +9AC +1max dex = +10total
Mithral Versions:
Mithral Chain Shirt: +4AC +6max dex = +10total (cost +850gp over MW)
Mithral Breastplate: +6AC +5max dex = +11total (cost +3850gp over MW)
Mithral Platemail: +9AC +3Max dex = +13total (cost +8850gp over MW)
By level 7 (Armor training 2) Heavy Armor is valuable for most fighters including archers.
Regarding Armor Check penalties:
MW Chain Shirt: -1 (removed with the first armor training)
MW Breastplate: -3 (removed with Armor Training 3)
MW Platemail: -5 (downgraded to -1 with Armor training 4)
Mithral reduces these numbers by 2 more.
I would take Mithral Platemail for a fighter that is an archer.
Note: I would NOT take heavier than Mithral Breastplate if I was a Fighter with the Archer archetype since that archetype loses Armor Training.
- Gauss
P.S. If money is the issue: Mithral Chain Shirt has the same AC of regular Platemail IF you have the dex to max it out (+6) and it costs 500gp less.
Edit: Celestial Armor blows all of this to peices btw. It is clearly superior.
Well I know that fighter greatly benefits off Dex with heavier armor thanks to armor training. Just that lots of players limit their armor weight initially due to lower strength/encumbrance or the style/image they had in mind for their archer or simple cost. Once price is less of an issue people tend to gravitate to as heavy as they can go while still allowing them to use whole Dex bonus to AC that they can afford, such as comparing with Gauss' table.
If I go archer I'd personally will load up on armor but a friend who's currently playing archer in party prefers mithral chain due to lack of armor check penalty to his skills (we've only just reached level 4).
Protoman, you are incorrect.
Chain Shirt: +4AC +4max dex = +8 total
Breastplate: +6AC +3max dex = +9 total
Platemail: +9AC +1max dex = +10totalMithral Versions:
Mithral Chain Shirt: +4AC +6max dex = +10total (cost +850gp over MW)
Mithral Breastplate: +6AC +5max dex = +11total (cost +3850gp over MW)
Mithral Platemail: +9AC +3Max dex = +13total (cost +8850gp over MW)
9+3=12
Edit: Celestial Armor blows all of this to peices btw. It is clearly superior.
check out celestial full plate ;)
If you take ride skill and have a mount, you can do the following:
Your mount moves up to its normal movement speed. Although your mount has moved, you may still full attack using your bow with no penalty to hit.Thus, even if your in heavy armor, you can move and shoot using your mounts speed - requiring only a DC 5 ride check (to control the mount while using a 2-handed weapon) to do it.
Awesome idea. Thanks a lot for this. I was not thinking of going mounted at all, but I had no idea you could get such a great benefit for such little.
Thanks for all of the other responses. As I said I am new and this has all been such a big help. I am making this character for organized play, so the odds of him getting past level 7 or higher are slim, but hopefully with this build I think I will have a good chance.
Crysknife, thank you for the correction. I was tired when I posted that and must've miskeyed it.
As for Celestial Plate, unfortunately, it is in a 3.5 paizo publication and therefore is not available to many people (either due to PFS rules or because GMs do not allow 3.5 material).
- Gauss
Protoman, suggest the Sash of the War Champion to your group's fighter (APG p309, 4,000gp, increases armor training and bravery by 4 levels).
One other note: my fighter archer build tanks by level 4 (via Point Blank Master at level 4). That is why I would stick him in the highest AC possible.
- Gauss
Protoman, suggest the Sash of the War Champion to your group's fighter (APG p309, 4,000gp, increases armor training and bravery by 4 levels).
One other note: my fighter archer build tanks by level 4 (via Point Blank Master at level 4). That is why I would stick him in the highest AC possible.
- Gauss
Yup. Once my oracle pick up Craft Wondrous Items, that'll be one of the first things I craft, right after all the stat-enhancing items.
You know, I've always wondered how many people pick up on the fact that I am advocating Point Blank Master @4 instead of 5. Not saying that you aren't Protoman. :)
- Gauss
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You know, I've always wondered how many people pick up on the fact that I am advocating Point Blank Master @4 instead of 5. Not saying that you aren't Protoman. :)
- Gauss
I noticed that, and remembered someone mentioning (probably you?) that you can do that by retraining one of the earlier Fighter Bonus feats at level 4, so you have:
L1 Weapon Focus: LongbowF2 Point Blank Shot
L3 Precise Shot
F4 Weapon Specialization: Longbow
F1 (retrained) Point-Blank Master
Being human would allow Rapid Shot or Deadly Aim, as well.
The F1 feat would have been Power Attack or Quickdraw, both outmoded by being able to just keep using your longbow without provoking.
F5 should be Snap Shot, probably, just so you threaten and can take AoOs, especially if you are tanking and your party has someone who can benefit from the flank (rogue, ninja or vivisectionist alchemist, IIRC)
I think I did mention it awhile back kinevon.
- Gauss
Oh I didn't notice that at all as I was mostly focused on the Sash of the War Champion (I'm the group's main item crafter).
For the fighter retraining, it's hard for me to figure what to swap out as if I go fighter archer, I probably would devote all feats to archery and the early level feats would be required pre-reqs for something else or just worth keeping, such as Deadly Aim.
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Oh I didn't notice that at all as I was mostly focused on the Sash of the War Champion (I'm the group's main item crafter).
For the fighter retraining, it's hard for me to figure what to swap out as if I go fighter archer, I probably would devote all feats to archery and the early level feats would be required pre-reqs for something else or just worth keeping, such as Deadly Aim.
Remember, as a Fighter, you get tons of feats, so, if you wind up having to tank a lot, or keep winding up with opponents rushing you so you get them at melee with you, it can be worth it to give up a feat temporarily to deal with the situation.
My 12th level PFS Fighter archer PC is unfortunately not as well-built as I would like, since I have been playing him since before the APG came out, so his feat progression keeps having to be looked at.
APG added Point Blank Master, maybe others
UC added Snap Shot and Improved Snap Shot, maybe others
I usually forget the every 4th level Fighter feat retraining option, too.
And Snap Shot added the need to pick up Combat Reflexes, to make best use of being able to threaten at range...
Movement and skill check penalties will be important at lower levels, but armor training eliminates the movement penalties and reduces the skill penalties.
Personally, I might look to upgrade to a breastplate at early levels as soon as I could (certainly by level 3). As I get close to level 7 I'd be looking to have a set of magic full plate. Either way you should be able to spare a feat or two to act as a switch hitter (power attack + quickdraw, say) in addition to the archery feats.
+1 with a bullet point! Stick to chain shirt levels 1-2 you want to be mobile, grab a breastplate at third, mithril if you can and sleep in it. by 7th trade that in for full-plate and pay a 1st level commoner to take it off you when you sleep.
Conundrum, sleep in your armor all you want. Just have someone remove the fatigue the next morning with lesser restoration. OR get a ring of sustenance and be unarmored for only 2hours per night (for the low low price of 2500gp). OR get +1 Folding Plate (10,000gp over regular +1 Plate if you want to try to rebuild it to some other kind of plate). OR...yeah, there are too many ways to deal with sleeping in armor penalties.
- Gauss
Conundrum, sleep in your armor all you want. Just have someone remove the fatigue the next morning with lesser restoration. OR get a ring of sustenance and be unarmored for only 2hours per night (for the low low price of 2500gp). OR get +1 Folding Plate (10,000gp over regular +1 Plate if you want to try to rebuild it to some other kind of plate). OR...yeah, there are too many ways to deal with sleeping in armor penalties.
- Gauss
GM was gonna give my pally folding plate at lvl 4 but I declined as I thought it a bit much for that lvl.