Taking 10 on swim checks in stormy water?

[Ravingdork]

Creatures with swim speeds gain a +8 bonus on swim checks and can take 10, pretty much whenever they want.

The swim skill DC table has a footnote that says you can't take 10 in stormy weather.

Which rule overrides the other?

[Diego Rossi]

I think that the creature specific rule will take precedence over the swim skill more general rule.

Putting it another way:
- a fish 2' under the water surface will not care about stormy weather;
- I have seen ducks following a ship during stormy weather, they were totally unfazed by the waves and were happily eating the bread pieces we were tossing overboard while sitting comfortably on the sea surface (I think it was strength 7 on the Beaufort scale [it was open sea, near a cost it can be more difficult even for them]).

The effect of the stormy weather will be a increased difficulty skill check.

[blackbloodtroll]

Just because 10 will not meet the DC, does not mean they cannot take 10.

[Ravingdork]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Just because 10 will not meet the DC, does not mean they cannot take 10.

That's not at all what I was implying.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, stormy weather may up the DC, but it does not prevent the ability of a creature with a swim speed to take 10.
They have this ability, that allows them to take 10, even in stressful situations, like stormy weather.
The ability exists for situations exactly like this.

[MurphysParadox]

The precedence is this, based on narrowing subsets.

General rule - Everyone can take 10 on skills (when not rushed, etc)!
Swim Skill specific rule - No one can take 10 in stormy weather!
Movement (swim speed) rule - You can take 10 on swim checks forever!

So the general rule is about skills, the skill specific rule is for swim. Then you have a rule that goes more specific and exists to override the swim skill rule. Otherwise there is no reason for the movement rule because everyone can take 10 anyway.

[james maissen]

Ravingdork wrote:

Creatures with swim speeds gain a +8 bonus on swim checks and can take 10, pretty much whenever they want.

The swim skill DC table has a footnote that says you can't take 10 in stormy weather.

Which rule overrides the other?

All creatures can take 10 on swim checks. There are some conditions that prevent this.

In stormy weather, those creatures cannot take 10 as normal. That is, this is one of those conditions.

Those with a swim speed can still take 10. They can always take 10 on swim checks.

-James

[Jiggy]

Add me to the "Swim speed is more specific than the Stormy Water prohibition for purposes of the whole 'Specific Beats General' thing" camp.