Hey everyone,
I've been looking at my current character and was wondering it it'd be worth dipping one level into Sorcerer for either the Infernal or Fey Bloodline?
He's a Cleric that focuses on Compulsion spells, but has the Charm and Nobility domains (modelled on Lelouch from Code Geass).
*Model my girlfriend made and I painted*
The campaign is Kingmaker. This character is the one I've had from the start and he'll be going up to level 4 next session as we finish the end of book 1.
Why these bloodlines?
Infernal: +2 to the DC of Charm Spells.
Fey: +2 to the DC of Compulsion Spells.
Charm is a level 1 spell and won't level up with me, but I would get Charming Smile as a Special Ability at level 8, which does scale with my character level, though only lasting 1 round per level, not 1 hour per level. Though, I can still heighten my Domain Spell up to level 8 (as it costs one spell level above the one you want and 10 doesn't exist).
So, I'm thinking the most relevant Bloodline would be the Fey one, for the awesome +2 to my Compulsion DC's. It would also give me an extra feat (Improved Initiative is what I'd take if I did do this), though it would make it impossible to reach 9th level Cleric Spells as the Campaign will probably end at level 17. So, it's a tough choice really as Overwhelming Presence is a Level 9 Spell I'd really like to get. Especially as this guy wants to become King, is a Tactician, Noble and Leader of the group (even though he leads from the back) who follows his own ideals, not Religious ones.
Would you say it's worth it?
What will my DC be for end game? Let's see......
Current DC = 10 + 3 (Wis) + 1 (Spell Level) + 1 (Spell Focus) = 15
End game:
DC = 10 + 9 (Heightened Murderous Command with Magical Lineage) + 2 (Both Spell Focuses) + 5 (all level ups into Wisdom) + 3 (for a +6 Headband of Wisdom) = 29 (28 on all other Compulsion Spells)
7 str
14 con
13 dex
11 int
16 wis
16 cha
Spells:
Level 1 - Command x1, Murderous Command x3
Level 2 - Zone of Truth x1, Hold Person x2
Skills:
Bluff
Diplomacy
Knowledge Nobility
Linguistics
Sense Motive
Feats:
1: Toughness, Selective Channeling
2: Spell Focus (Enchantments)
3: Greater Spell Focus (Enchantments)
4: Heighten Spell
5: Extend Spell
6: Improved Initiative (if no Multi-Classing)
7: Bouncing Spell
8: Versatile Channeler
9: Spell Perfection
So, is it worth sacrificing a level 9 slot to get my Compulsion DC up to 30 (31 Murderous Command), or is 28 fine without it and good enough to go straight Cleric?
Thanks! :)
I would not do it. The number of times that extra high will slot will be useful will generally outnumber the amount of times the monster makes the save by only 2.
You also still have to deal with SR, and monsters that are just immune to enchantment.
Mass Heal, Gate, Miracle, Summon Monster 9 are all must better options, and give you more versatility.
Hmm, so do you feel my character will be strong enough without that extra +2?
A dip into Sorcerer would give me another +2 to Will Saves, as the jump from Cleric level 16 to 17 doesn't increase your Will.
1d20 + Caster Level counts for Spell Resistance and your ability to go against it, so technically if you both had the same, nothing would go through either way, but then I wouldn't have thought everything would have a Spell Resistance anyway, so maybe it's not something I should worry about?
The campaign's going well at the minute anyway. Seems pretty fun with this character, even if he's useless with his backup crossbow. :p
He just manipulates others, turning them against each other and supports his allies for his own desires. Leading them to victory and ensuring their survival, to hopefully have them as his Bodyguards, Grand Diplomats and Royal Assassins for if he becomes King.
Your will save should be high enough without MC'ing. The +2 is not worth losing those other spells especially with the information in my previous thread.
At high levels you are mostly dealing with outsiders and dragons, unless the GM makes his own NPC's which is time consuming at that level. All dragons, and outsiders at that level have SR. Even monsters that are not outsiders or dragons have it sometimes.
What do you mean by "1d20 + Caster Level counts for Spell Resistance and your ability to go against it, so technically if you both had the same, nothing would go through either way,"?
If you mean it would stop other spells also, then that is correct, but at least with the 9th level spells you get more options. Not only that, by multiclassing you are losing caster levels which makes it easier for monsters to use dispel magic against you, and harder for you to use it against them.
I have a character that did that (fey sorcerer 1/cleric 3) and I haven't regretted it. One missing caster level is fairly harmless, in my experience, and in return I got the bonus to DCs (nice, but not really exciting), a few spells (I took Feather Fall and True Strike for the lack of somatic components) and the ability to use arcane wands and scrolls (I frequently use a wand of Magic Missile with that PC).
YMMV, of course.
@Wraithstrike - In every Adventure Path? :/
Apparently in Kingmaker, if you're successful at Kingdom Building, money is no issue, so with that in mind I intended to get the following items later on:
1. Mithral +5 Breastplate of Command, Determination property
2. Cape of the Mountebank - Maybe make intelligent to sense danger and teleport me with dimensional door when needed.
3. Helm of Brilliance (lots of Spells like Fireball and Fire Wall cast) or Crown of Major Blasting
4. Headband of Wisdom and Charisma
5. Belt of Constitution
How likely is it that this guy will become useless at higher level with his DC of 28? Our party haven't ever surpassed level 6 in a campaign, but luckily so far we've only encountered one death in the party and that was from an unhealable Critical...well, the GM deemed it unhealable unless Lesser Restoration was prepared and cast beforehand (punctured lung crit card, which three of us including myself, felt should have been healed with a channel or cure light wounds spell, but nope).
@Hogarth - Sounds good, but would Feather Fall and True Strike still not be likely to fail if you cast them on yourself while wearing medium armour? I'm in Breastplate atm.
You might want to talk to your GM about that. The kingdom's money is the kingdom's and to treat it like a bank makes KM a lot easier than it already is. The idea behind BP is that it belongs to the citizens though.
There won't be too many enemies that can stand up to a DC of 28. IIRC there are probably 3, but that is all I will say to avoid spoilers.
Hmm, well he just said money is no issue in the campaign, so I assumed we'd be in charge of Tax and income, along with how to spend it, with a focus on loyalty and economy over stability, but hopefully stable enough to run properly.
I'm happy with that answer though. Seems like boosting my DC is the way forward for this character and I purposely made him weaker and slower for the concept, as his strengths are all about manipulation.
What does IIRC mean? I can work out some acronyms, but that one is beyond me. We don't abbreviate things anywhere near as much as Americans in England. :p
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@Wraithstrike - In every Adventure Path? :/
Apparently in Kingmaker, if you're successful at Kingdom Building, money is no issue, so with that in mind I intended to get the following items later on:
1. Mithral +5 Breastplate of Command, Determination property
2. Cape of the Mountebank - Maybe make intelligent to sense danger and teleport me with dimensional door when needed.
3. Helm of Brilliance (lots of Spells like Fireball and Fire Wall cast) or Crown of Major Blasting
4. Headband of Wisdom and Charisma
5. Belt of ConstitutionHow likely is it that this guy will become useless at higher level with his DC of 28? Our party haven't ever surpassed level 6 in a campaign, but luckily so far we've only encountered one death in the party and that was from an unhealable Critical...well, the GM deemed it unhealable unless Lesser Restoration was prepared and cast beforehand (punctured lung crit card, which three of us including myself, felt should have been healed with a channel or cure light wounds spell, but nope).
@Hogarth - Sounds good, but would Feather Fall and True Strike still not be likely to fail if you cast them on yourself while wearing medium armour? I'm in Breastplate atm.
Here's what I'd suggest:
If your character concept and RPing would benefit from taking a level of sorcerer, go for it. It's not going to hurt your cleric progression much, and the +2 to DCs is helpful for sure. Personally, being able to activate wands of any sorc/wizard spell would be a useful enough ability for me to do so. BUT, if you're doing it ONLY to get the +2 to DCs, it's probabaly not worth it. If you go for it, make sure to RP it ingame as your character discovering some magical ability that doesn't seem to come from his deity, and he's surprised and confused by it but decides to explore it a little.
Hmm, well he just said money is no issue in the campaign, so I assumed we'd be in charge of Tax and income, along with how to spend it, with a focus on loyalty and economy over stability, but hopefully stable enough to run properly.
I'm happy with that answer though. Seems like boosting my DC is the way forward for this character and I purposely made him weaker and slower for the concept, as his strengths are all about manipulation.
What does IIRC mean? I can work out some acronyms, but that one is beyond me. We don't abbreviate things anywhere near as much as Americans in England. :p
IIRC=If I Recall Correctly
Hmm, well he just said money is no issue in the campaign, so I assumed we'd be in charge of Tax and income, along with how to spend it, with a focus on loyalty and economy over stability, but hopefully stable enough to run properly.
I'm happy with that answer though. Seems like boosting my DC is the way forward for this character and I purposely made him weaker and slower for the concept, as his strengths are all about manipulation.
What does IIRC mean? I can work out some acronyms, but that one is beyond me. We don't abbreviate things anywhere near as much as Americans in England. :p
If I Recall Correctly.. I think, don't actually know so I might be wrong xD
Haha, thanks guys. :p
Was there another one too? ASF or something?
As for dipping, maybe I won't as I feel if that end game DC is high enough, I'll have more fun with Overwhelming Presence than I would for a dip in another Class, but if I really start to struggle with my DC's, then I probably will take a dip.
I guess at least the option is there and it wouldn't nerf me too much if I did go with it.
I'll more than likely be preparing Murderous Command a lot in my higher slots, so I can do more per day. I mean if I had three Murderous Commands prepared in each spell level Slot I'm able to, I think that'd give me a lot of options and I might not even need Extend Spell, so could have another feat to play about with.
Command is fun, especially when I get Mass Command. I'll just tell everyone to either fall to the floor or drop their weapons. :D
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To get the most out of a sorcerer dip, I would choose a level of crossblooded with Fey and Serpentine.
The DC boost is nice, but adding the ability to cast your spells on animals and magical beast, could help you out a bit until you get higher level spells.
That would also come in handy!
I doubt I'd be powerful enough to Charm or Murderous Command a Dragon though. XD
Dipping would only be for these abilities anyway, not the spells. :)
@Hogarth - Sounds good, but would Feather Fall and True Strike still not be likely to fail if you cast them on yourself while wearing medium armour?
No, spells with no somatic component don't suffer from arcane spell failure.
By the way, I forgot to mention Laughing Touch, which my cleric has used a few times. And I agree that the bloodline arcana for the Serpentine bloodline is pretty good, too.