Elyza, the Command activated line does not require 5 charges per day. You are welcome to try to find any text in the CRB that states otherwise but I do not believe you will find it. Unfortunately, as written it is infinite and then if you choose to apply charges per day it comes down in price if those charges are less than 5. Five charges per day price = unlimited charges per day price.
Regarding Pricing in general:
Back in 3.5 WoTC had an article where they walked people through pricing the Ring of Invisibility. 2*3*1800=10800gp (command activated, unlimited charges thus no 5/charges per day). They then increased it to 20,000gp due to usefulness. The equations have not changed much since WoTC explained things.
Since I've quoted this information so much I decided to hunt for the statement. Here it is: Damn, now Im quoting WoTC material again!
This is the relevant quote:
For example, a ring of invisibility is a command-activated item that duplicates a 2nd-level spell, and its caster level is 3rd (the minimum to cast the spell). According to Table 7-33, such an item has a cost of 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp (spell level x caster x 1,800 gp). So, a ring of invisibility costs 10,800 gp, right? Wrong, it costs nearly twice that much (20,000 gp) because an endless supply of invisibility spells are worth something extra.
Edit: there have been a few changes to the pricing of all of this but, the rationale for most of the pricing schemes can still be found in that article.
- Gauss
It's also a bit debatable whether or not the duration multiplier applies to use-activated items. The use-activated or continuous line is marked with that footnote, but the footnote itself only mentions continuous items. I could see it either way, but I bet you can guess which I'd pick. ;)
Also, has it been clarified anywhere whether or not you can make multiple attacks per round with a use-activated item? If not, it'd be a good distinction between that and a weapon enhancement.
An instantaneous spell effect cannot be continuous, it has to be use-activated. I would say that this requires a standard action, myself.
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Well Gauss, the examples I could find fit that formula. Can you show me an item based on an instantaneous duration spell that can be used more than five times a day? My quick search didn't come up with one. (Excluding wands/staves as they have a finite number of total charges.) If five uses/day was the same cost as an infinite number of uses/day, why would the boots of teleportation or cape of the mountebank be limited. Mages are greedy. If there was a threshold where price didn't increase, they would not stop short of it during their crafting.
An instantaneous spell effect cannot be continuous, it has to be use-activated. I would say that this requires a standard action, myself.
Yes. It would have to!
If it was made continuous, it would be the most amazing metamagic item ever and every caster in the world would be trying to "reverse arcaneer" it. (Like that? I made it up on the spot. I'm pretty clever that way.)
The item could not be used to make more than one attack per round, and would require a standard action to activate and use, unlimited charges or not.
The item could not be used to make more than one attack per round, and would require a standard action to activate and use, unlimited charges or not.
*innocently* Even if we were using a Quickened Shocking Grasp as spell basis?
*runs for cover*
I can't say that I have any clue as to how metamagic feats would figure into this. I'd rather just avoid them.
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Quicken Spell adds 4 to the effective spell level, so:
5 (effective spell level) x 9 (caster level required to cast a 5th level spell) x 1800 (command word activated) = 81,000 for a CL 9 wondrous whatever of shocking grasp, activated as a swift action.
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There seems to be some confusion over use-activated and continuous.
Use-activated means that the item's magic functions as a result of its normal use. A lantern of revealing is the classic use activated item. You light it, it works, no command word necessary. Incense of meditation is another use-activated item. You burn it, it works. Ring of invisibility is not a use-activated item. It is a command word item.
Continuous is the category for most worn items. You wear a cloak of resistance, it gives you a continuous save bonus. Minor cloak of displacement is a continuous item; major cloak of displacement is a command word item.
Neither category has anything to do with daily uses or charges.
It is correct that the 1800 gp command word activated price is for unlimited use. I can't find the reference, but when that pricing scheme was devised, 5 uses per day was considered effectively unlimited due to the 4-encounter adventuring day assumption built into the CR mechanic. Obviously YMMV.
Regardless of the original designers' intent, the price reduction for less than 5 daily uses also means that if you want to make an item with 7 daily uses, it costs exactly as much as one with 9 daily uses or infinite daily uses. There is no meeellion gold piece charge for unlimited daily uses, only arbitrary adjustments to item prices like the ring of invisibility example.
Well Gauss, the examples I could find fit that formula. Can you show me an item based on an instantaneous duration spell that can be used more than five times a day? My quick search didn't come up with one. (Excluding wands/staves as they have a finite number of total charges.) If five uses/day was the same cost as an infinite number of uses/day, why would the boots of teleportation or cape of the mountebank be limited. Mages are greedy. If there was a threshold where price didn't increase, they would not stop short of it during their crafting.
Elyza, there is ZERO distinction between instantaneous and non-instantaneous items in the command activation line. Nothing in the text provides a distinction. (Note: I am not stating that they do not limit instantaneous to charges per day as a balance measure, but it is not a stated rule in the guidelines for custom magic items.)
Yes, there are examples of command activated, limited use per day items. And yes, there are examples of command activated, unlimited use per day items. The two are not mutually exclusive.
As I said in my previous post: the pricing of CL*SL*1800 is for unlimited charges per day. If then you divide by (5/charges per day) you may decrease the cost. It is not required to divide by (5/charges per day). This is why they have magic items with less than 5 (or unlimited) charges. To decrease the cost. If you find an item with more than 5 charges that would be interesting indeed since that would make them MORE expensive.
However, with all that said I think it would fix some items with unlimited charges to make them limited to 5charges/day (for that price).
- Gauss
The item could not be used to make more than one attack per round, and would require a standard action to activate and use, unlimited charges or not.*innocently* Even if we were using a Quickened Shocking Grasp as spell basis?
*runs for cover*
Quicken Spell adds 4 to the effective spell level, so:
5 (effective spell level) x 9 (caster level required to cast a 5th level spell) x 1800 (command word activated) = 81,000 for a CL 9 wondrous whatever of shocking grasp, activated as a swift action.
...and after that, you only get a single swift action per turn. It would allow you to make your one shocking grasp attack as part of a full attack, that's all.
There seems to be some confusion over use-activated and continuous.
Use-activated means that the item's magic functions as a result of its normal use. A lantern of revealing is the classic use activated item. You light it, it works, no command word necessary. Incense of meditation is another use-activated item. You burn it, it works. Ring of invisibility is not a use-activated item. It is a command word item.
Continuous is the category for most worn items. You wear a cloak of resistance, it gives you a continuous save bonus. Minor cloak of displacement is a continuous item; major cloak of displacement is a command word item.
Neither category has anything to do with daily uses or charges.
It is correct that the 1800 gp command word activated price is for unlimited use. I can't find the reference, but when that pricing scheme was devised, 5 uses per day was considered effectively unlimited due to the 4-encounter adventuring day assumption built into the CR mechanic. Obviously YMMV.
Regardless of the original designers' intent, the price reduction for less than 5 daily uses also means that if you want to make an item with 7 daily uses, it costs exactly as much as one with 9 daily uses or infinite daily uses. There is no meeellion gold piece charge for unlimited daily uses, only arbitrary adjustments to item prices like the ring of invisibility example.
Wrong.
There is not a price reduction for charges per day.
From Table 16-36: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values
Charges per day: Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)
No little superscript indicating it is only applicable to items with 5 or less charges. There is nothing there that says it is not applicable to items with 6 or more charges.
An item with 7 charges per day has its price divided by 0.714 (i.e. 5/7), which increases the cost, while an item with 3 charges has its price divided by 1.667 (which decreases the cost).
Master Arminas
Master Arminas, you are of course correct. However, I believe Charlie Bell was trying to state that once you hit 5charges per day you are at the unlimited charges per day pricing. Anything anyone manufactured from 5 and above would be priced at the unlimited charges per day cost rather than the 1-4charges per day cost. Unless of course the GM were trying to control the price/charges by forcing a higher cost/charge over 4 (an act which is fine imo).
- Gauss
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Wrong.
There is not a price reduction for charges per day.
From Table 16-36: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values
Charges per day: Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)
No little superscript indicating it is only applicable to items with 5 or less charges. There is nothing there that says it is not applicable to items with 6 or more charges.
An item with 7 charges per day has its price divided by 0.714 (i.e. 5/7), which increases the cost, while an item with 3 charges has its price divided by 1.667 (which decreases the cost).
Master...
Wrong.
Special: Charged (50 charges), Base Price: 1/2 unlimited use base price, Example: Ring of the ram
implies that the base price listed for a command word is for unlimited use. It specifically calls out a command word item, ring of the ram, as an example.
See ring of blinking for an unlimited use command word activated item that's actually priced significantly below the formula result:
CL 7 x spell level 3 x 1800 gp = 37800 gp, and it actually costs 27000.
Now show me a core magic item with more than 5 daily uses that's priced according to "An item with 7 charges per day has its price divided by 0.714 (i.e. 5/7), which increases the cost...." Hint: there aren't any.