I was looking at crafting traps to use with the rogue's quick trapsmith talent, and found out it was impossible to actually use in a game, because crafting non-magical traps is ludicrously expensive and time consuming (magical traps are actually pretty affordable. Go figure.)
Then I realized it wasn't just trap's at fault, EVERY form of non-magical crafting is horrendous. The only things you can craft in less than 3 months are cheap things you could buy yourself for 10 GP, and the things you might actually want to craft yourself to save money can take months of time to create, and are never really worth it.
Yes, back in the day, sword making required a team, sub-contracting of specific tasks (like scabbard-making and handle-making) to other craftsman, and could still take days. Building a light, practical catapult, however, could take the same amount of people the same amount of time. In game, however, the sword could take a character a day (by himself) to make, and the light catapult could take a whole team months on end. Nevermind the time it would take to make something bigger, like a heavy, war-ready catapult.
I know some items, like swords, have to be cheap so players can afford them, but the reason people take a craft skill is to make expensive things, not cheap things, at reduced cost. However, unless you're an Alchemist with swift alchemy, the time it takes to make anything worth crafting is just too long to invest. Not only does this get really unrealistic, it's also bad for play.
I wanted to fix this, both with traps and other non-magical equipment. This may fall on the side of "Hollywood-style unrealisticly fast," in some places, but that's a better place to be than "Too slow to be useful in a game." So, here's my thoughts on some alternate mundane item crafting rules.
Craft checks:
Paying 1/3 the item's cost when creating items represents buying component parts from other makers. A character may create an item from the most basic raw materials, (uncut trees, raw herbs, iron ore, animal skins, etc.) in which case he pays 1/10 the item's base cost, and uses the creation rules as normal.
If the character pays 1/3 the item's base cost for raw materials for pre-prepared parts, he may make crafting checks every day instead of every week. These checks function as weekly checks under the normal crafting rules. (Multiply craft check by the target DC, subtract from the item's base cost in SP to find amount of work completed.)
Locations:
Workshop: While a character only needs artisan tools to work on a craft, a dedicated workshop (50 gp to add to an existant building, 200 gp for a separate structure) adds +2 to craft checks.
Portable workshop: This workshop can be installed into the back of a wagon or similar vehicle, allowing crafting to be done on the go. (cost: 100 gp)
When crafting without a workshop or portable workshop, your work is half as effective. When spending a full day crafting without a workshop, divide your progress in half for the day's work.
You can make a crafting check while out actively adventuring, fitting work in during meals, on watch, or at night. When crafting in this fashion, however, your progress for the day is divided by 4, and you cannot take 10 on your crafting check.
You may only take 20 on a craft check when working a week at a time. If you take 20, that one check represents your progress for the entire week.
If your progress equals double, triple, etc the remaining amount of work, you finish the work in half, 1/3, etc the time. Crafting an item always takes a minimum of an hour.
Help:
As long as you possess ranks in craft, you can supervise untrained help to aid in your crafting (grinding metal, cleaning, working billows, etc.) Each untrained helper you have gives you a +2 bonus to your craft check for that day. Hiring untrained help usually costs a silver piece per helper per day.
Trained help (those with ranks in the necessary craft skill) adds half their total skill bonus (minimum: 2) to the craft check for the day. Hiring trained help usually costs 5 silver pieces per day per rank in the necessary craft skill.
A workshop allows up to 12 people to help the crafter at once. Up to 7 people may assist a craftsman working with a portable workshop. Up to 4 people may help a crafter working in the field. If the crafter has access to an unseen servant for at least 4 hours that day, the unseen servant may count as untrained help.
A beartrap is a CR 1 trap that costs 1 gold. To create a custom CR 1 trap, however, costs 1000 gold, and takes weeks of time to create, even with the new rules above (possibly months without the new rules.) That sounds wrong to me.
Idea: divide traps into basic, simple, advanced, and expert.
Follow all the trap creation rules as given, except:
Basic traps (CR of 1,) have a base cost of 100 gp, and a base crafting DC of 15.
Simple traps (CR of 2-3,) cost 250 x the CR.
Advanced traps (CR of 4-8,) cost 500 x the CR.
expert traps (CR of 9+,) cost 1000 x CR.
I have not yet run numbers and such to check if the times and costs I've included are the best (that comes soon I hope,) but this is at least a starting idea for how to change mundane crafting to make it a fun, usable part of the game.
Does this seem like a good direction? Are there good 3PP stuff that deals with this that could save me the time and energy of perfecting these rules? What do you all think?
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Your system seems like it should hold up pretty well as a houserule. However, if I may make a suggestion, look up Spes Magna Games' Making Craft Work. I use it all the time in my games. It takes all the clunkiness of the Craft system out, and makes it quick, easy, and streamlined. And no, I am not a paid advertiser for Mark of Spes Magna Games. Perish the thought...
It seems like the traps mentioned in Craft Traps are all built into the walls of dungeons. It's the only way to make sense of the cost of some of them. Also, adding poison raises the CR, but shouldn't realistically raise the construction time.
I would assume they are, but quick trapsmith says some of them (GM's Discretion) can be built, carried around, and set up by the rogue in different places.
And no, I am not a paid advertiser for Mark of Spes Magna Games. Perish the thought...
Like I got a budget to pay for advertising. :)
In noodling with the craft system, I've come up with the following solution which solves 'some' problems: The Craft Multiplier.
Basically, each specific craft/profession skill has an attached multiplier. This multiplier multiplies your craft progression per week and your income per week making a living. The catch? The higher the multiplier the bigger the community you need to make a living (nobody buys locks in a village), and the more equipment/assistance you need to do your craft (aside from perhaps a few field repairs and the like - YMMV).
Adjust the multiplier to your own flavor; Craft: Charcoal would be x1 and can find work anywhere there's trees; he needs an axe, a shovel and some flint and steel (and time). Craft: Jewelry would be a x4 (or more), but he needs a decent sized town (if not a city) to make a living as well as some specific and expensive equipment.
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And no, I am not a paid advertiser for Mark of Spes Magna Games. Perish the thought...Like I got a budget to pay for advertising. :)
Then I shall provide such as a free service.
Seriously, I pimp Making Craft Work to everyone I know who plays Pathfinder. I love it. It makes my life much, much easier.
I was looking at crafting traps to use with the rogue's quick trapsmith talent, and found out it was impossible to actually use in a game, because crafting non-magical traps is ludicrously expensive and time consuming (magical traps are actually pretty affordable. Go figure.)
Then I realized it wasn't just trap's at fault, EVERY form of non-magical crafting is horrendous.
If you houserule craft keeping the money-based creation system, I'd suggest to go with a 50% raw material investment. Not only would it tie-in with magical crafting, but since PC sell their stuff at 50%, you'd avoid PCs to make 500 gp overnight with a good craft check (or other similar shenanigans); the craft skill already has a way to generate an income.
This way, you can accelerate crafting without skewing the (admittedly debatable) economic system.
As for not having to fund 50% of the market value of the item up-front, your could built a sub-system to somehow provide that value, either with recycled/improvised material or by spending time (and another skill check?) to "craft" the raw materials.
'findel