Using a slashing weapon for bludgeoning damage

[Meddling Monk]

I'm trying to find a ruling that allows me to use a slashing weapon (Great Axe in this case) to do bludgeoning damage. I would think you could use the flat of the blade and treat it as an improvised weapon, but how exactly would this work? Could you still get the magical bonus for a magical weapon, and how much damage would it do? The rules for improvised weapons are extremely vague (only a single paragraph).

(The particular situation is a potential encounter against a Lich, which has DR 15/Bludgeoning and Magic...I'm wondering if there's a way to use the flat of the axe to get around the DR, instead of having to Power Attack to try to get through the DR.)

[JrK]

I'd say improvised weapon attack, with stats equal to a heavy mace. That's all.

[zagnabbit]

That's generous by rules. But fair.

[Umbranus]

Not sure what RAW has to say about it but I would guess that if you do nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon it has to be bludgeoning damage as I can't imagine piercing or slashing nonlethal damage.
So I'd say that you could just use the rules for doing nonlethal damage with lethal weapons, if dealing nonlethal is ok for you.

[Dabbler]

Two good suggestions there. I would certainly say that you can use most weapons in ways not originally intended.

On the whole, I'd say:
Hafted Weapon (eg halberd, spear): can be used as an improvised club.
Non-hafted Weapon (eg longsword): can be used as improvised brass knuckles.
Some slashing weapons could also be used as piercing: Longswords and scimitars as improvised short spears, for example.

[Meddling Monk]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm still wondering if you should be allowed to use the magic weapon bonus when using the weapon in these ways... (i.e., would my +2 Fey Bane Great Axe, for example, be a +2 Fey Bane improvised weapon, or just a plain improvised weapon?).

[Dabbler]

I would say something like a longsword used to thrust would certainly keep it's enhancement bonus. In the case of a hafted weapon, the fact that the haft is still treated as magic for the purposes of it's hardness and hit points says to me that it should be treated as enhanced.

[Meddling Monk]

Makes sense, thanks!

[Umbranus]

I'd say it depends on the the kind of magic enhancement.
Keen for example should not work if you use the weapon in a way it's not meant to be used.

[Dolanar]

If you used it as an improvised weapon you would likely receive the same -4 penalty as most improvised weapons, being that you likely have proficiency I might houserule a -2 instead of a -4 but I would allow it to be used as Lethal & not non-lethal.

As far as your situation & Lethal/Non-Lethal I understand that Lethal is a requirement since if I recall undead are immune to non-lethal damage. so this seems to be a nice compromise to me.

[Quantum Steve]

Dabbler wrote:

I would say something like a longsword used to thrust would certainly keep it's enhancement bonus. In the case of a hafted weapon, the fact that the haft is still treated as magic for the purposes of it's hardness and hit points says to me that it should be treated as enhanced.

Would you get to keep masterwork bonuses?

Also, does this mean you don't have to enchant both ends of a quarter staff since the entire length of a weapon is enchanted?