I've been interested in some dangers that might exist in combat when someone shuts down magic items, say a quickened dispel magic and a sunder on the fighters favorite sharp stick, and how to try to defend against such nastiness if you're a cautious PC or BBEG.
So how do you defend against this? You could use an orange ioun stone for +1 caster level, and theoretically you could use a moon circlet if you only work on your sharp stick during the new moon... but then making a +4 sword would take a year.
Are there any other ways to make caster level higher or defend against dispelling magic items?
What about if its a magic item that has other spells cast on it? (Say hardening, greater magic weapon, and weapon of awe amongst other things) How does the dispel check work, and how would you defend against it?
The caster only has to beat the CL of whoever made the item at the time it was made. You having an orange ioun stone does not help. There is really not much you can do against that combo. Most creatures that cast spells don't have strong attacks though
I'm referring to magic item creation. Sorry, I forgot to mention that.
When you create the magic item you generally get to choose which level it is made at, but if you use a higher caster level than normal it generally increases the price of the item.
Weapons and armor are assumed to be made to made at a certain caster level. I think the GM would have to ad-hoc the price for a higher level weapon. As for other magic items the GM will have to do some ad-hoc pricing also.
You would have to find ways to raise you caster level in order to make it work. You might be better starting a thread asking how to raise caster levels.
When you create the magic item you generally get to choose which level it is made at, but if you use a higher caster level than normal it generally increases the price of the item.
I wasn't aware of that. I looked through the magic item creation rules and the pricing was related to the features you're trying to implement, not the caster level you're trying to implement. The spellcraft DC is related to the caster level though.
Weapons and armor are assumed to be made to made at a certain caster level. I think the GM would have to ad-hoc the price for a higher level weapon. As for other magic items the GM will have to do some ad-hoc pricing also.
Pretty sure that price isn't related to caster level in RAW.
No the issue of creating a weapon at a higher than normal caster is not covered by RAW, but the item creation rules are really guidelines. By RAW you can't even raise the caster level so by using a higher caster level you are already outside of RAW. That mean guideline/GM Fiat time. Since nothing in the game is assumed to be free, most GM's would up the price if you get a benefit.
Caster Level for Weapons: The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
Notice that it says the caster level is . If you choose to apply a higher caster level you are not going by RAW anymore even if your caster level is above what is needed.
Going strictly by RAW there is no way to raise the caster level. A generous GM could allows you to use a higher caster level, but as I said I doubt it would be for free.
That's just for default descriptions of magic items, and doesn't relate to magic item creation rules directly. There's some contradiction going on, but obviously you can make items at higher level or you wouldn't be able to make higher level scrolls and potions.
From SRD
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.
While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal.
I'm not sure what metamagic feats they're talking about and how to use this for magic item creation exactly.
The metamagic feat is referring to items that actually cast spells like wands.
The caster level being higher would also apply in these cases. As an example creating a wand of fireball or magic missile at caster level 10 instead of 5 would produce a more powerful spell, and increase the price.
Going back to weapons, the core rules assume what is in the book. Any deviation is GM Fiat territory. If that were not the case then no PC would buy a sword made by a lower level caster if a higher level caster could make a better weapon for the same price.
The area you just quoted are the prereqs for creation, and it says
While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item.
Now weapons have their own rules for creation and pricing and are not priced off of the spell used like many other items are.
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. A magic weapon must have at least a 1 enhancement bonus to have any melee or ranged special weapon abilities.
In the magic weapon section which I quoted earlier it said the caster level is....
By RAW the rules are saying you must have a minimum of caster level X in the magic weapon creation area. In the magic weapon general section it is saying that caster level is..... It does not say "can" or "may be".....
The metamagic feat is referring to items that actually cast spells like wands.
Er, yeah but I still don't know what they mean by "Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal."
The caster level being higher would also apply in these cases. As an example creating a wand of fireball or magic missile at caster level 10 instead of 5 would produce a more powerful spell, and increase the price.
Can you make wands and scrolls with metamagic on them? Extended mage armor scrolls or something?
Going back to weapons, the core rules assume what is in the book. Any deviation is GM Fiat territory. If that were not the case then no PC would buy a sword made by a lower level caster if a higher level caster could make a better weapon for the same price.
Sounds reasonable. Casters might reasonably charge services based on caster level, the way that spellcasting services are charged extra for higher levels (Caster level × spell level × 10 gp) even if the item creation was the same cost.
Still seems strange that there aren't rules covering raising caster level for items besides consumables though for resisting dispels and the like.
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself.
Probably this is the most likely supporting text in the SRD for your position, which is reasonable I suppose.
So by RAW the only way to make a higher caster level is to make a more powerful weapon. Seems a bit obnoxious if you only want to defend against dispelling.
You can make wands and scrolls with metamagic feats such as extended mage armor spells.
Destroying weapons for PC's is assumed to be a rare thing since many players find it to not be fun. Some people would rather have their characters killed, and dispelling a weapon only turns it off for 1d4 rounds so even when dispelled is used the magic item is not often destroyed.
As for "Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal."
It seems they are referring to the fact that metamagic'd spells take up higher level slots than normal spells. I think the wording is bad though.
As an example a wand can only hold up to a 4th level spell. An empowered fireball uses a 5th level slot, but since fireball is still a 3rd level spell the wand can hold the spell.
Okay, so going through the magic weapons caster levels just for examples for things that all cost 8000 gp base
+2 sword, caster level 6
+1 corrosive sword: caster level 10
+1 bane sword: caster level 8
+1 flaming sword: caster level 10
+1 frost sword: caster level 8
+1 ghost touch sword: caster level 9
+1 shock weapon: caster level 8
+1 spell storing: caster level 12
So... what gives? all these different caster levels, giving much different results for exactly the same price, different resistance to dispelling.
And how does dispelling the weapon work when spells are cast on it? Say you have greater magic weapon on a +1 corrosive weapon cast at level 13. Does it dispel the greater magic weapon or does it dispel the corrosive weapon?
Or say you have hardening cast on a +1 corrosive weapon at level 13 and greater magic weapon cast on it at level 9...