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Ok, so I have a quick question on how Punishing kick works. I'm making a duelist that has punishing kick and a rapier in hand. Now do I just add the punishing kick to my normal attacks, or do I need to make an unarmed strike in order to use it? the rules don't appear to state that you need to make an unarmed attack to have it work, but I could be wrong.
It's ambiguous.
But seriously, how are you gonna PK someone with a Rapier?
I'd personally let it slide with a morningstar or a greatsword but most of the light bladed weapons would be out.
And it's vague for specifically the point of monks using Ki Focus weapons since the feat was a monk feature by design.
Doesn't seem ambiguous to me. It states thatYour kicks are so powerful you use ...Kick to me clearly implies unarmed strike.
I don't argue that the RAI is that you have to use an unarmed strike to make it work, but from a RAW standpoint, well actually let me just pull up the actual rule:
"Benefit: You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). On a successful hit, the attack deals damage normally and you can choose to push your target 5 feet or attempt to knock them prone. If you decide to push the target, it is moved 5 feet directly away from you. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and the target must end this move in a safe space it can stand in. If you decide to attempt to knock the target prone, the target receives a Fortitude saving throw with a DC of 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wisdom modifier to avoid the effect. You may attempt a punishing kick attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round."
Now as a duelist I can totally see using your agility to trip or re-position a person, and this just seems like a good free way to accomplish this.
So just to get a feel from people. By RAW I can use punishing kick with my rapier, but it's definitely against the spirit RAI?
Pretty sure its a kick
I would also say its a kick. It is in the title of the Feat, it is in it descripition.
I think the mechanics were left a little vague so someone could make a case for doing it with a punch.
But if you are making a duelist, a dip into monk (1 or 2 levels) is worthwhile.
Go Master of Many Styles/Hungry Ghost Monk. (Also look at Sacred Mountain, you lose evasion, but gain, +1 Natural AC and Toughness as a bonus feat)
You will replace Stunning Fist with Punishing Kick, Get unarmed attacks.
If you are free hand fighting, the Crane line of feats will benefit your character. If you are duel wielding, look at the Snake line feats. (Of course if you are dueling wielding with your off hand attacks, Crane works well with that too.) Master of Many Styles lets you access the Style feats early.
I know this was off your topic alittle, so I apologize for the tangent.
I would also say its a kick. It is in the title of the Feat, it is in it descripition.
I think the mechanics were left a little vague so someone could make a case for doing it with a punch.
But if you are making a duelist, a dip into monk (1 or 2 levels) is worthwhile.
Go Master of Many Styles/Hungry Ghost Monk. (Also look at Sacred Mountain, you lose evasion, but gain, +1 Natural AC and Toughness as a bonus feat)
You will replace Stunning Fist with Punishing Kick, Get unarmed attacks.
If you are free hand fighting, the Crane line of feats will benefit your character. If you are duel wielding, look at the Snake line feats. (Of course if you are dueling wielding with your off hand attacks, Crane works well with that too.) Master of Many Styles lets you access the Style feats early.
I know this was off your topic alittle, so I apologize for the tangent.
actually I'm doing exactly what you said. I put a build on the advice forum already. The problem is that it's feat heavy and so I don't have two-weapon fighting right away. So I'll have this punishing kick feat, but I'll be swinging with my rapier not my fists.
As Blackbloodtroll points out, although it seems by RAI it's definitely a kick, there's nothing in it's description that describes you having to make an unarmed strike to gain the benefits of it.
As far as common sense goes, that's already out the window. I'm a strength 5 halfling, so nothing about my kicks will every be "punishing"
I would also say its a kick. It is in the title of the Feat, it is in it descripition.
I think the mechanics were left a little vague so someone could make a case for doing it with a punch.
But if you are making a duelist, a dip into monk (1 or 2 levels) is worthwhile.
Go Master of Many Styles/Hungry Ghost Monk. (Also look at Sacred Mountain, you lose evasion, but gain, +1 Natural AC and Toughness as a bonus feat)
You will replace Stunning Fist with Punishing Kick, Get unarmed attacks.
If you are free hand fighting, the Crane line of feats will benefit your character. If you are duel wielding, look at the Snake line feats. (Of course if you are dueling wielding with your off hand attacks, Crane works well with that too.) Master of Many Styles lets you access the Style feats early.
I know this was off your topic alittle, so I apologize for the tangent.
actually I'm doing exactly what you said. I put a build on the advice forum already. The problem is that it's feat heavy and so I don't have two-weapon fighting right away. So I'll have this punishing kick feat, but I'll be swinging with my rapier not my fists.
As Blackbloodtroll points out, although it seems by RAI it's definitely a kick, there's nothing in it's description that describes you having to make an unarmed strike to gain the benefits of it.
As far as common sense goes, that's already out the window. I'm a strength 5 halfling, so nothing about my kicks will every be "punishing"
Well if you are going with a Monk Dip, I would see if a Hungry Ghost Monk mixes with your whatever monk archetypes you use. (It should with Master of Many Styles and Sacred Mountain at the same time.) You exchange it for Stunning Fist and avoid having this kind of discussion with your GM.
At the end of the Day it just matters what your GM thinks.
I would also say its a kick. It is in the title of the Feat, it is in it descripition.
I think the mechanics were left a little vague so someone could make a case for doing it with a punch.
But if you are making a duelist, a dip into monk (1 or 2 levels) is worthwhile.
Go Master of Many Styles/Hungry Ghost Monk. (Also look at Sacred Mountain, you lose evasion, but gain, +1 Natural AC and Toughness as a bonus feat)
You will replace Stunning Fist with Punishing Kick, Get unarmed attacks.
If you are free hand fighting, the Crane line of feats will benefit your character. If you are duel wielding, look at the Snake line feats. (Of course if you are dueling wielding with your off hand attacks, Crane works well with that too.) Master of Many Styles lets you access the Style feats early.
I know this was off your topic alittle, so I apologize for the tangent.
actually I'm doing exactly what you said. I put a build on the advice forum already. The problem is that it's feat heavy and so I don't have two-weapon fighting right away. So I'll have this punishing kick feat, but I'll be swinging with my rapier not my fists.
As Blackbloodtroll points out, although it seems by RAI it's definitely a kick, there's nothing in it's description that describes you having to make an unarmed strike to gain the benefits of it.
As far as common sense goes, that's already out the window. I'm a strength 5 halfling, so nothing about my kicks will every be "punishing"
Well if you are going with a Monk Dip, I would see if a Hungry Ghost Monk mixes with your whatever monk archetypes you use. (It should with Master of Many Styles and Sacred Mountain at the same time.) You exchange it for Stunning Fist and avoid having this kind of discussion with your GM.
At the end of the Day it just matters what your GM thinks.
Lol, I'm actually doing precisely Master of Many Styles/ Hungry Ghost/ And Sacred Mountain. I'm doing the Master of Many Styles to get the Crane Style feats early, and since I won't utilize Flurry of Blows it's no loss. Stunning fist would get weaker as I level since it's tied to the monk level, but punishing kick isn't so that's another pure gain for the build. Finally the Monk of the Sacred Mountain is a free toughness feat, and free +1 natural armor bonus.