I know that Evil characters are not allowed in PFS, but I want to play a Neutral Undead Lord archetype, and i'm not sure if it is legal or not (can't find anything saying no to negative energy clerics) But I don't want to spend the time building one if it is an illegal character choice. I haven't gotten anything in the PFS boards, so i'm hoping i can get it answered here :)
My understanding is that it is allowed. I would double check the Ultimate Magic book on the list of allowed material and make sure the archetype is allowed at all. I seem to remember someone just receantly asking about the undead companion on the boards though so it leads me to believe they are allowed.
Thanks Bomanz, I don't know why but i've always loved the necromancer hero. I blame Diablo 2 for that. Something about using "evil" against itself appeals to me. I also love my dark character types, as I'm running a vivisectionist in a Kingmaker campaign. quite the crazy mad scientist he is... cutting everything up he can get his hands on.
My understanding is that it is allowed. I would double check the Ultimate Magic book on the list of allowed material and make sure the archetype is allowed at all. I seem to remember someone just receantly asking about the undead companion on the boards though so it leads me to believe they are allowed.
I looked, and it didn't show up as being modified nor disallowed in the FAQ, so things are looking up for me :)
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Thanks Bomanz, I don't know why but i've always loved the necromancer hero. I blame Diablo 2 for that. Something about using "evil" against itself appeals to me. I also love my dark character types, as I'm running a vivisectionist in a Kingmaker campaign. quite the crazy mad scientist he is... cutting everything up he can get his hands on.
I played it as though the shells of the dead were just mere shells, that to my belief i could animate them and do as I wished, because EVERY religion out there says that the souls of the departed go to their little slice of heaven/hell.
Sometimes I had to animate dead bad guys instead, and summoning the skeletons/skeleton champions from the summon list I would explain away as "death coming to those who thwart my justice/goal/whatever".
As for carting my buddies around town I'd usually have a wheelbarrow/cart or what have you and bluff like hell, a 2 rank jump in "Profession: Mortician" helped too.... "whats that officer? No no no, these sad souls were not buried per their religious beliefs, I am taking them now to be seen to."
I was pretty creepy too, more than one bluff to intimidate based off my "Repent, ye evil foe, for if thou shalt not, I shall bind your soul to my service" or something less dramatic but more terrifying.
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Remember that unless a PFS document explicitly states otherwise, Core rules are followed. Core rules allow clerics of evil deities to be neutral themselves, and PFS has not changed this. So as long as you play him as actually neutral, you should be fine on that point.
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Remember that unless a PFS document explicitly states otherwise, Core rules are followed. Core rules allow clerics of evil deities to be neutral themselves, and PFS has not changed this. So as long as you play him as actually neutral, you should be fine on that point.
But remember that a neutral cleric of an evil deity will still detect as evil.
All sorts of interesting RP potential there, that my own Dhampyr Undead Lord Cleric hasn't really encountered, yet, but he is only just level 2.
And that was despite playing First Steps Part 2: To Delve the Dungeon Deep with a couple of stereotypical good clerics. No paladin, thankfully, but the party seemed happy to have my little skeleton buddy along to soak up a few enemy attacks...
Remember that unless a PFS document explicitly states otherwise, Core rules are followed. Core rules allow clerics of evil deities to be neutral themselves, and PFS has not changed this. So as long as you play him as actually neutral, you should be fine on that point.But remember that a neutral cleric of an evil deity will still detect as evil.
All sorts of interesting RP potential there, that my own Dhampyr Undead Lord Cleric hasn't really encountered, yet, but he is only just level 2.
And that was despite playing First Steps Part 2: To Delve the Dungeon Deep with a couple of stereotypical good clerics. No paladin, thankfully, but the party seemed happy to have my little skeleton buddy along to soak up a few enemy attacks...
But what about a Neutral Cleric of a Neutral deity who channels negative energy? IE Pharasma, who is TN but is also the goddess of death? Would I detect evil then? because from what i've seen in RAW, you only have an aura when you are Lawful/Chaotic or Good/Evil, not when you are neutral.
So then as a cleric of pharasma, i won't detect as anything, which is nice. Now onto another question, which may or may not break my character. RAW states that a Good cleric of a neutral Deity channels positive energy. While an evil cleric channels negative, and a neutral chooses.
From reading the Undead Lord archetype, it does not require one to channel negative energy (although that would be better to heal the undead companion) It does state that you gain Command Undead as a bonus feat, which requires channel negative energy class feature, however since it is granted as a bonus feat, i'm assuming it is granted whether or not you meet the prereqs, as it is with TWF for rangers.
I guess my problem is that i want to make a Good character, who utilizes the powers of evil against itself, much like the Necromancer from Diablo does. But that is where i run into the problem, RAW states that if I'm good, i have to channel positive, otherwise have to go neutral, and if I do too many good deeds, I lose my class features and must atone and go back to neutral.
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So then as a cleric of pharasma, i won't detect as anything, which is nice.Hmmmm... I don't know if your deities aura would be the most powerful aura, or the only aura.
I think he was talking about if he were also TN. Otherwise, I imagine the cleric's "deity aura" would be in addition to his "personal aura".
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So then as a cleric of pharasma, i won't detect as anything, which is nice. Now onto another question, which may or may not break my character. RAW states that a Good cleric of a neutral Deity channels positive energy. While an evil cleric channels negative, and a neutral chooses.
From reading the Undead Lord archetype, it does not require one to channel negative energy (although that would be better to heal the undead companion) It does state that you gain Command Undead as a bonus feat, which requires channel negative energy class feature, however since it is granted as a bonus feat, i'm assuming it is granted whether or not you meet the prereqs, as it is with TWF for rangers.
I guess my problem is that i want to make a Good character, who utilizes the powers of evil against itself, much like the Necromancer from Diablo does. But that is where i run into the problem, RAW states that if I'm good, i have to channel positive, otherwise have to go neutral, and if I do too many good deeds, I lose my class features and must atone and go back to neutral.
The prereq isn't even the issue in this case: the feat's description says you have to expend a use of channel negative in order to utilize it. So even if you got Command Undead while being a positive-channeler, you wouldn't be able to use it.
Personally, I think the coolness would outweigh the "wasted" bonus feat, especially when you surprise your table by channeling to heal them all after they assumed you were a negative channeler. ;)
You could still prepare inflict spells (or get a wand) for healing your Corpse Companion and then have a wand of cure for healing allies (or spontaneously cast cure spells).
I understand that she is very against the undead, however she grants the Death domain to her clerics if they so choose, and in that she gives them Animate Dead, Create Undead, and Create Greater Undead. As Bomanz said earlier, this would be more using the shell of a creature as just that: A shell, and having it fight to bring the balance of life and death back. I know its a very grey area, but I believe even with the fluff of her being Anti-undeath, if she gives her devout the ability to create it, if its being done in service to her, then it wouldn't require atonement.
Granted Powers: You can cause the living to bleed at a touch, and find comfort in the presence of the dead.
Bleeding Touch (Sp): As a melee touch attack, you can cause a living creature to take 1d6 points of damage per round. This effect persists for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1) or until stopped with a DC 15 Heal check or any spell or effect that heals damage. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Death's Embrace (Ex): At 8th level, you heal damage instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy. If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal hit points just like undead in the area.
Domain Spells: 1st—cause fear, 2nd—death knell, 3rd—animate dead, 4th—death ward, 5th—slay living, 6th—create undead, 7th—destruction, 8th—create greater undead, 9th—wail of the banshee.
Also having reread the taboo section in Faiths of balance, my character would specifically be creating undead in order to destroy other undead as it states "You may not create undead, nor control them unless specifically to destroy them" Personally i view this as within the bounds of a Cleric of Pharasma, although if there are any other Neutral deities with Death as a domain, i'd be open to them.
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I understand that she is very against the undead, however she grants the Death domain to her clerics if they so choose, and in that she gives them Animate Dead, Create Undead, and Create Greater Undead. As Bomanz said earlier, this would be more using the shell of a creature as just that: A shell, and having it fight to bring the balance of life and death back. I know its a very grey area, but I believe even with the fluff of her being Anti-undeath, if she gives her devout the ability to create it, if its being done in service to her, then it wouldn't require atonement.
** spoiler omitted **
Also having reread the taboo section in Faiths of balance, my character would specifically be creating undead in order to destroy other undead as it states "You may not create undead, nor control them unless specifically to destroy them" Personally i view this as within the bounds of a Cleric of Pharasma, although if there are any other Neutral deities with Death as a domain, i'd be open to them.
Not everyone is going to agree with you there.
Just to give you an example, I would not.
So you know, I think this was printed some where, but she does not give her followers the Ability to Create Undead.
You can read about it here, which is PFS legal.
It is always a good idea to avoid "Grey Areas" in PFS if you don't want GMs causing you problems.
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You can't create undead just to destroy it. Thats sort of like a cleric of healing cutting people to heal them.
You can control undead with the intent of destroying them.
I would pick a different deity. Some of the DM's aren't going to let you use half your abilities with your deity.
I hear Hanspur is hiring...
What i meant BNW, when i said creating undead to destroy undead is "Create a lesser unintelligent undead in order to combat a greater undead such as a vampire or lich" type deal, its the equivalent in healing to say amputation in order to stop the spread of an infection, or in D&D/PF to stop the spread of a curse. If a paladin cannot drop the "Unholy sword of Evil Incarnate" because it has possessed him, and you have no ability to remove the curse, just remove the sword, at the wrist. its a very extreme use of the ability, I wouldn't have done it willy nilly, however I don't like the idea of being a cleric of an evil deity. I read up on Hanspur, and i really wish there was more on him. Is he in any of the AP books dealing with the river kingdoms? Like how Besmara is in both Skull and Shackles and Pirates of the Inner Sea?
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As much as I love the concept of a Pharasmin Undead Lord, the concept also kinda rubs me the wrong way. Someone who worships Pharasma just wouldn't go making undead. Some concepts just don't work out the way you had intended.
Go with Charon instead! Say he got tired of listening to all the souls pissing and moaning about how Pharasma misjudged them, so he lets them loose for a bit to redeem themselves, see if Pharasma sends em to the same place again.
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I think part of the Problem with Pharasma is that players see her as another Wee Jas, which she is not.
But on to giving you advice on different Gods.
So an Non-Evil god that would not cause you to lose you powers with Undead.
Nethys
Groetus
Besmara - More information on her in Pathfinder Adventure Path #55: The Wormwood Mutiny
Hanspur
The most information you will find on Hanspur is in Faiths of Balance
I read the Faiths of balance, and it is literally a 3 or so paragraph blurb. I was hoping for something more along the lines of Besmara's expanded description she received in AP 55, and Pirates of the Inner Sea.
Also Besmara is out as an Undead Lord, because they MUST take Death as a domain, and the Undeath Subdomain if possible, and Death is not one of her many awesome domains.
Nethys just doesn't sit well with me, i can't explain why.
And groetus is out just like Besmara because of the lack of Death in his portfolio.
Does PFS require a Cleric to worship a deity? or are they able to revere a certain aspect of the cosmos like one can in a non PFS game?
The only reason i'm against being a non-evil worshipper of an evil deity is from DMs in the past i've had who would "penalize" me for not being evil enough for the deity, while also outlawing evil characters in his campaigns. I had a cleric of Nerull once who embodied the balance that death provides, (much like pharasma is in PF and Raven Queen in 4E) and he basically said i needed to be more overtly evil in order to be one of his clerics.
Then again he was sort of a bad DM who required paladins to be Stupid GOod or Lawful Stupid, smiting jaywalkers and what not.
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So far as I have seen and run, especially since, as a PFS judge, you know you are never going to see every game, much less run every game, that anyone's PC is going to play in.
Add in that undefined time between scenarios, and you can be as good as you want and just say you spend the downtime kicking puppies to retain your neutral alignment, or your connection to your deity for your clerical abilities.
Isnt there an alternate spell list for Pharasma when her clerics have the death Domain? or is that not PFS legal.. off the top of my head i cannot remember where its from a blog?
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Isnt there an alternate spell list for Pharasma when her clerics have the death Domain? or is that not PFS legal.. off the top of my head i cannot remember where its from a blog?
It is from a blog, and there is a link to it saying it is legal on the Additional Resources page.
Here is a direct link to it.
Pharasma-Friendly Death Domain
3rd-level domain spell: Replace animate dead with speak with dead.
6th-level domain spell: Replace create undead with antilife shell.
8th-level domain spell: Replace create greater undead with symbol of death.Pharasma-Friendly Souls Subdomain
3rd-level domain spell: Replace animate dead with speak with dead.
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A list of PF deities with the Death Domain and I have bolded the ones who aren't evil:
Achaekek
Aesdurath
Ahriman
Ancestral Spirits
Arlachramas
Baalzebul
Cagnazzo
Charon
Circiatto
Corosbel
Deumus
Fandarra
Farafello
Fumeiyoshi
Gogunta
Hanspur
Jacarkas
Kabriri
Kalma
Mahathallah
Menxyr
Mneoc
Nergal
Norgorber
Orcus
Pavnuri
Pharasma
Ruzel
Sithhud
Urgathoa
Venkelvore
Xhamen-Dor
Yaezhing
Yhidothrus
Zon-Kuthon
Zura
Zyphus