Sage sorcerer using Eldritch Heritage

[Interzone]

If you have a Sage Sorcerer, and you take the Eldritch Heritage feat, would you use your Int for the bloodline power via by the feat?

[Archaeik]

No, the arcana is what changes the casting stat, you only gain the power.

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Quote:

The bloodline power lists Cha because that's the standard terminology for sorcerer bloodlines (because all other sorcerers use Cha), and because there may be a way for a non-sorcerer to gain access to that bloodline power, in which case it should be based on Cha (like other sorcerer bloodline powers) instead of Int.

[LazarX]

Interzone wrote:

If you have a Sage Sorcerer, and you take the Eldritch Heritage feat, would you use your Int for the bloodline power via by the feat?

No. In that case you'd actually have to use the Charisma score. The Archetype specifically lists what the Int swap does for you and feat qualification is not one of the things affected. UMD skill use also is not affected by the way.

[Shisumo]

I think you would, actually. You are still using a sorcerer power, and sage sorcerers use their Intelligence for all sorcerer class abilities. LazarX is correct that you still have to meet the Cha prereq for the feat, of course, but once you get it, then your new power is as impacted by your new arcana as your original powers were. (Note that the quote from the FAQ says "non-sorcerers," which obviously doesn't apply here.)

[Archaeik]

Shisumo wrote:

I think you would, actually. You are still using a sorcerer power, and sage sorcerers use their Intelligence for all sorcerer class abilities. LazarX is correct that you still have to meet the Cha prereq for the feat, of course, but once you get it, then your new power is as impacted by your new arcana as your original powers were. (Note that the quote from the FAQ says "non-sorcerers," which obviously doesn't apply here.)

No, sorcerers use Cha.

sorcerers with the Sage arcana use Int.

It's not unbalancing to play it differently, but it's not RAW.

[ryric]

Archaeik wrote:

No, sorcerers use Cha.

sorcerers with the Sage arcana use Int.

It's not unbalancing to play it differently, but it's not RAW.

I think you are misunderstanding the question. He is already a sage sorcerer, he already uses Int.

He wants to take Eldritch Heritage to gain another bloodline's stuff. I think yes, he would use Int for the gained power.

Persoanlly, I think he would have to take the wildblooded version of whatever bloodline power, as his archetype changes all his possible bloodlines to the alternate version. But I'm fairly certain that interpretation is not RAI.

[Archaeik]

Yes, I misunderstood...

Bloodline Arcana(Sage) wrote:

Unlike most sorcerers, whose innate magic is powered by force of personality, you use your intellect to understand and master your mystic powers. You use your Intelligence, rather than your Charisma, to determine all class features and effects relating to your sorcerer class, such as bonus spells per day, the maximum spell level you can cast, the save DCs of your spells, and the number of daily uses of your bloodline powers. You gain a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft checks.

Eldritch Heritage wrote:

Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

On the surface, I agree it works, specifically in regard to any bloodline powers.

(Further it says "do not gain", not "cannot use")

Re: wildblooded. Personally I haven't decided what I think the intent was regarding mixing bloodline types... it's been mentioned to me that wildblooded was created without knowledge of eldritch heritage though.

[Interzone]

Further explanation:
The character is a crossblooded Draconic-Sage Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple, with very high Int, and incredibly low Cha...

The question is if this character takes Eldritch Heritage for Abyssal to get more claw action, is he going to end up with 3+Int(i.e. 10) uses per day or 3+Cha(i.e. 1) uses? Obviously the result would have a large impact on whether he decides to make this choice :P

[Shisumo]

You still have to come up with the Cha 13 for the feat's prerequisites or it's irrelevant.

But if you do, you'd get 3 + Int uses.

[Archaeik]

Well, don't you need 13 Cha for the feat?
Nothing about the Sage arcana would change that by the rules...

However, I do think that since nothing in the arcana limits it to BL powers you gain through sorcerer levels, that it would allow your int to apply to "uses per day". (I somewhat doubt this was the intent if the author didn't know about the EH feat chain)

Eldritch Heritage seems to provide an "pseudo-bloodline" based on character level, independent of any sorcerer levels, which is why it prereqs Cha.
Sage itself is a "corruption" of the normal way a sorcerer acts as a conduit for magical energy/power, but doesn't necessarily change the way/reason those additional, independent abilities manifest.

[LazarX]

New homerule I'm going to do for my campaign. Eldritch Heritage feats are banned for anyone with sorcerer class levels. It just exceeds my cheese tolerance. I'm close to banning them totally for my home campaigns.

[HaraldKlak]

As I read the rules, Int wouldn't apply to the eldritch heritage abilities.

The sage arcana mentions this: "You use your Intelligence, rather than your Charisma, to determine all class features and effects relating to your sorcerer class..."

The kicker is that the arcana refers to class features and effects derived from the class. This does not include powers gained through Eldritch heritage, which are product of a feat rather than your class.

[MyTThor]

HaraldKlak wrote:

As I read the rules, Int wouldn't apply to the eldritch heritage abilities.

The sage arcana mentions this: "You use your Intelligence, rather than your Charisma, to determine all class features and effects relating to your sorcerer class..."

The kicker is that the arcana refers to class features and effects derived from the class. This does not include powers gained through Eldritch heritage, which are product of a feat rather than your class.

This. Whatever you gain from eldritch heritage is not a sorcerer class ability, even if it can be for another person. It's a power gained from a feat.