So, I rather liked the concept behind the Shadowdancer, but wanted to run something like a Shadowdancer as a martial class instead of a rogue-like class. Something about the whole concept of a badass warrior with shadow powers just sounded cool to me. So, without further ado, here we are.
Shadow Knight:
HD: d10
BAB: Full
Good Saves: Fort, Ref
Bad Save: Will
Requirements:
Skills: Stealth: 5 ranks, Knowledge (planes): 5 ranks, Perception: 5 ranks
Feats: Blind-Fight
Class Skills:
Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Stealth
Skill Ranks per Level 4 + Int Modifier
Class Features:
Hide in Plain Sight: Gained at 1st level, and functions as the Shadowdancer Ability.
Cloak of Shadows (Sp): At 1st level, the Shadow Knight gains the ability to cast Darkness as a spell-like ability (with a caster level equal to his Shadow Knight level) a number of times per day equal to 3 + his intelligence modifier. At 4th level this improves to Deeper Darkness.
Darkvision: At 2nd level, a Shadow Knight gains darkvision out to a range of 60 feet. If they already have darkvision, the range increases by 30 feet. For every two levels of Shadow Knight beyond second, the range of the Shadow Knight's Darkvision increases by another 10 feet.
Strike from Darkness: At 2nd Level, whenever a Shadow Knight is in an area of dim light or darkness, they gain a +1 bonus to hit and damage on melee attacks. At 7th level, this bonus increases to +2.
Summon Shadow: Gained at 3rd level, and functions as the Shadowdancer Ability.
Bonus Feats: At 3rd level the Shadow Knight gains their choice of Skill Focus (Perception) or Skill Focus (Stealth) as a bonus feat. At 6th Level the Shadow Knight gains Improved Blind-Fight as a bonus feat. At 9th level, he gains Greater Blind-Fight as a bonus feat.
Shadow Jump: Gained at 4th level, and functions as the Shadowdancer Ability.
Armor Training: The Shadow Knight is adept at maneuvering through the shadows, even when wearing heavy armor that would normally encumber a warrior. At 5nd level, the Shadow Knight gains Armor Training 1. At 10th level this improves to Armor Training 2. If the Shadow Knight already had Armor Training from his base class or any other source, this ability instead improves his existing armor training by one step at levels 5 and 10.
Blindsense: At 5th level the Shadow Knight gains Blindsense out to a range of 30 feet.
Armor or Darkness (Sp): At 7th level, the Shadow Knight gains the ability to use Armor of Darkness as a spell-like ability (with a caster level equal to his Shadow Knight level). Activating this ability is a swift action, but the Shadow Knight can only use this power on themselves. The Shadow Knight may use this ability for 10 minutes/Shadow Knight Level, and it must be used in ten minute increments.
Shadow Walk (Sp): At 8th level, the Shadow Knight gains Shadow Walk as a spell-like ability (with a caster level equal to his Shadow Knight level), usable once per day.
Blindsight: At 9th level the Shadow Knight gains Blindsight out to a range of 30 feet.
Shadow Master: Gained at 10th level, and functions as the Shadowdancer Ability.
One of the Paizo freelancers has something similar here.
Charisma seems like a better fit for this guy.
This guy is really, really good. There aren't too many reasons to choose shadow dancer over this. Blind sense 30 feat is really good, as is armor training.
This requires far fewer feats than the shadowdancer to get into, and gets a lot more.
I think you should tone it back a bit, at least to the point where there are good reasons to take Shadowdancer. I love the concept though!
A great martial shadow user can be found here. They're a mix between fighters, rogues, and shadowdancers. At the very least, you can mine it for ideas.
Feat requirements might be lower, but the skill requirements went up by quite a bit. For martial classes, skill points are a lot harder to come by than they are for rogues, and feats are easier. If the requirements do go up, any suggestions?
I think Shadowdancer vs. Shadow Knight isn't quite that unbalanced; Shadowdancer get more skill points, Evasion + Imp. Evasion, Defensive Roll, Slippery Mind Uncanny Dodge + Improved, Rogue Talents, and the very versatile shadow illusion/conjuration/evocation abilities.
Also might be worth mentioning that Shadowdancer is kind of infamous for only being used as a one-level dip to get Hide in Plain Sight.
Considering the class' more martial focus, I wouldn't be averse to knocking Hide in Plain Sight later on into the class, or even dropping it entirely. That would do a lot to differentiate it from the Shadowdancer, and the class' focus is more on direct combat than sneaking anyway.
I forgot to mention. When I comment on homebrew stuff, I always try to give the disclaimer that while praise is great, criticism is useful. So don't take it personally, I really do love the concept you have going on.
The skills issue isn't all that big for someone who wants to go into this. Any class with non-negative Int, such as those going for this class, can get in by using their 2 per level + favored class option. The class *is* Int based, after all.
Rogues going for hide in plain sight will just go for this. Instead of 3 feats they may not use, they just need to place 5 ranks in a skill they wouldn't normally take, and then take blind-fight. What do they get out of it? HiPS, 2 Good saves (as opposed to the shadowdancer's 1), and +1 BAB (as opposed to the shadowdancers +0), and darkness at least 3 times per day. That's definitely worth the hit of 2 skill points that the shadowdancer has over this guy.
Oh yea, and improving cloak of shadows to be deeper darkness means that they can't see in it anymore. Deeper Darkness isn't penetrated by darkvision. Maybe give them the ability to see in supernatural darkness, but note that that is a very powerful combination.
In many ways, the shadowdancer is much more defensively oriented, as you pointed out. But this guy is pretty good at making the enemy dead, which is defensive in its own right. And rogue tricks aren't that great. The Illusion, etc abilities are quite nice though.
I'm not sure what's thematic about the armor training feature. Seems a bit tacked on.
Armor of Darkness is no longer in the game, and for good reason. I'd look for something else. The level after it's granted, it's basically equivalent to a ring of protection +5 for every encounter, opening up a ring slot for something more useful.
Take a look at the Shadowblade ability of the shadow assassin I linked. I think that could work out quite well here, although the progression would either have to be tied to character level, or sped up.
I might just have to ask him about that...
I forgot to mention. When I comment on homebrew stuff, I always try to give the disclaimer that while praise is great, criticism is useful. So don't take it personally, I really do love the concept you have going on.
The skills issue isn't all that big for someone who wants to go into this. Any class with non-negative Int, such as those going for this class, can get in by using their 2 per level + favored class option. The class *is* Int based, after all.
Rogues going for hide in plain sight will just go for this. Instead of 3 feats they may not use, they just need to place 5 ranks in a skill they wouldn't normally take, and then take blind-fight. What do they get out of it? HiPS, 2 Good saves (as opposed to the shadowdancer's 1), and +1 BAB (as opposed to the shadowdancers +0), and darkness at least 3 times per day. That's definitely worth the hit of 2 skill points that the shadowdancer has over this guy.
Oh yea, and improving cloak of shadows to be deeper darkness means that they can't see in it anymore. Deeper Darkness isn't penetrated by darkvision. Maybe give them the ability to see in supernatural darkness, but note that that is a very powerful combination.
In many ways, the shadowdancer is much more defensively oriented, as you pointed out. But this guy is pretty good at making the enemy dead, which is defensive in its own right. And rogue tricks aren't that great. The Illusion, etc abilities are quite nice though.
I'm not sure what's thematic about the armor training feature. Seems a bit tacked on.
Armor of Darkness is no longer in the game, and for good reason. I'd look for something else. The level after it's granted, it's basically equivalent to a ring of protection +5 for every encounter, opening up a ring slot for something more useful.
Take a look at the Shadowblade ability of the shadow assassin I linked. I think that could work out quite well here, although the progression would either have to be tied to character level, or sped up.
Oh, no worries about the criticism; I always value constructive criticism that helps make things better; it's helping me make this PrC better, after all.
A 2+Int class would have to spend most/all of their skill points to qualify for the PrC; which seems to me like a significant trade-off. Not averse to tweaking the requirements though.
As a thought for keeping it away from rogue entry and staying on the Knight theme, perhaps I could add medium armor and martial weapon proficiency to the requirements?
Maybe change the Deeper Darkness upgrade to allow the Shadow Knight the option of using Deeper Darkness or normal darkness. The Shadow Knight blinding themselves and the enemy will still usually be a win for the SK given the blind-fighting bonus feats and eventual blindsight.
Armor Training got it's start with a vague idea that a Shadow Knight should have some ability to sneak around/be mobile in armor; armor training keeps him from taking a -6 on stealth checks. Since stealth is part of the class, a Shadow Knight who constantly clanks around whenever he tries to be sneaky seemed a bit odd.
Dropping HiPS from level 1 will do a lot to discourage dipping; the more I think about it, the more it sounds like a really good idea.
After double-checking the spell, i have to agree Armor of Darkness was a bit much; I didn't read the spell too carefully when I first tossed it in. No surprise it got cut. Replacing it with a modified version of Shadowblade sounds like a good idea.
Ah! See, when I think armor training, I think "full speed in medium and eventually heavy armor. " the help with acp didn't really occur to me, as I consider it a lesser ability. Yeah, a class ability to reduce ACP for stealth is a great idea.
So, doing a bit of revision
Shadow Knight:
HD: d10
BAB: Full
Good Saves: Fort, Ref
Bad Save: Will
Requirements:
Skills: Stealth: 5 ranks, Knowledge (planes): 5 ranks, Perception: 5 ranks
Feats: Blind-Fight
Proficiencies: Must be proficient with Martial Weapons and Medium Armor.
Class Skills:
Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Stealth
Skill Ranks per Level 4 + Int Modifier
Class Features:
Cloak of Shadows (Sp): At 1st level, the Shadow Knight gains the ability to cast Darkness as a spell-like ability (with a caster level equal to his Shadow Knight level) a number of times per day equal to 3 + his intelligence modifier. At 4th level the Shadow Knight may choose to use this ability as Deeper Darkness instead.
Darkvision (Ex): At 2nd level, a Shadow Knight gains darkvision out to a range of 60 feet. If they already have darkvision, the range increases by 30 feet. For every two levels of Shadow Knight beyond second, the range of the Shadow Knight's Darkvision increases by another 10 feet.
Strike from Darkness (Ex): At 2nd Level, whenever a Shadow Knight is in an area of dim light or darkness, they gain a +1 bonus to hit and damage on melee attacks. At 7th level, this bonus increases to +2.
Shadowblade (Su): At 3rd level, the shadow knight gains the ability to create a weapon made of solid shadows as a swift action (this can be any weapon with which he is proficient). This weapon is treated as magic for purpose of bypassing DR, and has an enhancement bonus to attack and damage equal to +1 for every two full levels of the shadow knight class. It has the same hardness and hit points as a normal magic weapon of its type, and dissipates at the end of any round it is not held in the shadow knight’s hand. A shadow knight may dissipate the weapon at will.
Bonus Feats: At 3rd level the Shadow Knight gains their choice of Skill Focus (Perception) or Skill Focus (Stealth) as a bonus feat. At 6th Level the Shadow Knight gains Improved Blind-Fight as a bonus feat. At 9th level, he gains Greater Blind-Fight as a bonus feat.
Shadow Jump (Su): Gained at 4th level, and functions as the Shadowdancer Ability.
Armor Training (Ex): The Shadow Knight is adept at maneuvering through the shadows, even when wearing heavy armor that would normally encumber a warrior and hamper their ability to remain hidden. At 5nd level, the Shadow Knight gains Armor Training 1. At 10th level this improves to Armor Training 2. If the Shadow Knight already had Armor Training from his base class or any other source, this ability instead improves his existing armor training by one step at levels 5 and 10.
Blindsense (Ex): At 5th level the Shadow Knight gains Blindsense out to a range of 30 feet.
Summon Shadow (Su): Gained at 7th level, and functions as the Shadowdancer Ability.
Shadow Walk (Sp): At 8th level, the Shadow Knight gains Shadow Walk as a spell-like ability (with a caster level equal to his Shadow Knight level), usable once per day.
Blindsight (Ex): At 9th level the Shadow Knight gains Blindsight out to a range of 30 feet.
Shadow Master (Su): Gained at 10th level, and functions as the Shadowdancer Ability.
Really not seeing what's so off-theme about armor training. The Shadow Knight is intended to be sneaky and maneuverable, and wear armor. Armor Training offsets all the things that make it harder to sneak/maneuver in armor.
Also worth noting that the assassin doesn't get spells in PF. I'd rather not go for a spell list, since it adds a lot of new complications.
Anyone else care to chime in on the HiPS issue?
How about if instead of armor training the Shadow Knight gets the following:
Armored Stealth: The Shadow Knight trains to maximize their ability to maneuver quickly and quietly, even in the heaviest of armors. At 5th level, the Shadow Knight improves the maximum Dexterity bonus of any armor they wear by 1, and decreases the armor check penalty on stealth and acrobatics checks by 1 when wearing medium or heavy armor. At 10th level these bonuses improve by 1. The benefits of Armored Stealth stack with those of any Armor Training that the Shadow Knight might have.