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Hi all,
I am thinking of planning a Monk in a level 11 game.
It will be Monk 11, I am a bit neurotic about multi-classing and missing the high-level stuff.
My preference runs toward using a Temple Sword because I like swords (is it settled if you need an EWP for this or not? I was slightly confused).
I will definetely customize a bit with Qinggong Monk but otherwise I am a bit bewildered by the number of available archetypes... any suggestions for the best ones? I was most interested in by Master of Many Styles and Flowing Monk... are these traps or are they any good?
Master of many styles is good, as long as you pick the right styles to go with it. However it's worth noting that the MoMS is really at his best as an unarmed fighter; many of the styles modify unarmed damage, or improve monk feats like Elemental Fist, Stunning Fist, etc. There are still plenty of good styles to be gotten though, so it's not a critical issue.
I'll let someone who's played the Archetype field the Flowing Monk.
Also worth noting that MoMS and Flowing Monk might be stackable if you have a reasonably negotiable GM; the only place they overlap is that MoMS replaces the standard bonus feat list, while Flowing Monk uses up your 2nd level bonus feat.
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Temple Sword: Heavy blades typically used by guardians of religious sites, temple swords have distinctive crescent-shaped blades, appearing as an amalgam of a sickle and sword. Many have holes drilled into the blade or places on the pommel where charms, bells, or other holy trinkets might be attached. Monks are proficient with the temple sword.
Proficient, and can be used in FoB.
Temple sword is also a trip weapon, syncing well with Flowing Monk.
Most of the styles sync better with unarmed strikes, not weapon usage. Master of Many Styles may not be what you're after.
We have a gal in our Saturday night game that plays a flowing monk.
She is nigh untouchable, an basicly flop locks opponents.
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Master of many styles is good, as long as you pick the right styles to go with it. However it's worth noting that the MoMS is really at his best as an unarmed fighter; many of the styles modify unarmed damage, or improve monk feats like Elemental Fist, Stunning Fist, etc. There are still plenty of good styles to be gotten though, so it's not a critical issue.
I'll let someone who's played the Archetype field the Flowing Monk.
Also worth noting that MoMS and Flowing Monk might be stackable if you have a reasonably negotiable GM; the only place they overlap is that MoMS replaces the standard bonus feat list, while Flowing Monk uses up your 2nd level bonus feat.
Good catch on the cross-over, I had just at a 'compatible archetypes' list I found online. She is fine with both.
...too bad it may not be a good idea, heh.
Something you can do is using master of many styles with crane style, take feats to greater trip (flowing monk gives +2 on trip) and vicious stomp.
The guy tries to punch you, put him down with the temple sword, you strike twice yourself and your friends once.
If you have paired opportunist in the team (or a tactician to give it), the poor guy won't see it coming, it is 3 AoO for everyone.
Something you can do is using master of many styles with crane style, take feats to greater trip (flowing monk gives +2 on trip) and vicious stomp.
The guy tries to punch you, put him down with the temple sword, you strike twice yourself and your friends once.
If you have paired opportunist in the team (or a tactician to give it), the poor guy won't see it coming, it is 3 AoO for everyone.
Only problem I see there is the 13 Int requirement for Greater Trip. That, and if all you want is Crane Style there's not much benefit to taking Master of Many Styles.
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Crane style is only here for the necessity of provoking the first AoO with crane riposte, and the master can have riposte @lvl2 (irrelevant here but anyway). However you can always add some styles to have a greater punch, juste pick the one that pleases you. I'm personally fond of crane riposte + snake fang. I agree MoMS is not needed, but the OP was talking about it.
Int 13 is always an issue for someone who tries to do some maneuvers anyway, but if you have paired opportunist in the team, any guy that attacks the monk will end up prone, and maybe dead.
Quick calculation of the trip AoO at lvl11:
human (20 point buy) : 19/14/10/13/13/7 (+1str lvl4, +1wis lvl8)
trip = 11(monk lvl)+5(str)+4(paired opp)+4(trip feats) = 24
She can trip a CR11 gold dragon on 11+, naked, without flanking, buffs and such.
PS : If not done already, take a look at this guide ;)
Int 13 is always an issue for someone who tries to do some maneuvers anyway, but if you have paired opportunist in the team, any guy that attacks the monk will end up prone, and maybe dead.
True, but Monk is already one of the most MAD classes in the game.
Personally, I would say that a monk who wants to focus on maneuvers should try to grab the ones with 13 Int as a requirement through their bonus feats, which would make MoMS a non-starter since it replaces your bonus feat selection.
I did agree on this :)
To make a trip monkey "monk only" I would certainly be a maneuver master and meet crane style prerequisites, especially starting @lvl11.
The temple sword just allows you to trip with it, to have some bonus on the trip check you'll have to enchant the sword.
For the flowing monk bonus I think you're refering to his redirection ability, but IIRC it only allows a trip/reposition against someone who attacks the monk, and the bonus only applies to this particular attempt and only if the attacker is charging/power attacking.
Anyway I was suggesting tripping since it is something the other players will love you for, gives them attacks and they'll never leave home without you. If you go for it, I suggest maneuver master as a monk archetype, it adds the improved feats to the monk's bonus feat list, and at 6th level it adds the greater version. You don't have to meet the prerequisites for these feats, so you don't need 13 int.
Plus for a ki point you roll twice the check and take the better result, it helps prevent natural "1" :)
I also suggest speaking with the other players to make them take combat reflexes (with some dex) and paired opportunists. If they don't, take a level of cavalier or 3 levels of holy tactician(paladin).
To give 3 AoO/round you'll need:
- crane feat chain
- greater trip
- vicious stomp
- paired opportunist among the team
- 14 dex and combat reflexes
1/ someone attacks you (easy enough)
2/ deflect with crane wing
3/ trip with the AoO of crane riposte => gives AoO to the team
4/ if trip is successfull, greater trip triggers => AoO for the whole team with a +4 bonus
5/ the guy falls prone, vicious stomp triggers => AoO for the whole team with a +4 bonus.
note: if the guy wants to stand, he provokes again. If he wants to attack anyway, he does so with -4 penalty on his attacks.
Worth mentioning that Flowing Monk does get improved trip and tripping strike on his bonus feat list, though missing out on greater trip is still a bit of a downer.
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PS : If not done already, take a look at this guide ;)
THanks for the guide - I missed it when I was reading this on my phone. :)