I think this topic hasn't been brought up in a while, but I wanted to chime in. Currently, upgrading the strength rating on a composite bow is not allowed. You have to buy it outright with the STR rating you want. I have seen these few problems so far:
1. Anyone wanting to use a comp. bow with any proficiency can't buy one from level 1. 150gp only gets you a regular shortbow or longbow, which you then have to scrap after your first adventure (it's like a 50gp tax on anyone wanting to use comp. bows, I know it's not a lot but at level 1 that potion of CLW can be a saver).
2. Wizards (elves?) are screwed of ever getting one as their arcane bond.
3. Archers have a hard decision at some point. Let's say I built my Archer Bard with 15 STR. After my first few scenarios, I cashed in for a mwk composite shortbow (+2 STR) which I later upgraded to a composite shortbow (+2 STR) +1. When I get to level 4, I might have wanted to put that 1 ability upgrade in STR to bring me to 16 STR and a +3 mod. All melee classes doing this get an instant bonus to damage. As an archer, if I wanted to benefit I would have to sell and rebuy my bow (1000+gp down the drain, plus cost of new +1 bow).
3a. I think it would be interesting if I had to make the decision of a STR (for damage) or a DEX (for AC/atk bonus) belt on my archer. But with un-upgradeable comp bows there is no reason to take the STR one. Or the DEX/STR one for that matter.
3b. I guess the ONE option is to purchase a comp bow with higher STR rating from the get go, to account for where you want to eventually get to. But of course, the penalties until you do get there make it so you probably will never fire it in the first place. If you were able to cast Bull's Strength consistently it MIGHT be an option, but then again why aren't you casting it on the Barb or Paly instead?
Yes, I know that thematically and RAW a composite bow is not "upgradeable". But a little handwaving (e.g. you are replacing the strings or pulleys with stronger/firmer ones instead of the frame) could go a long ways.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I think this topic hasn't been brought up in a while, but I wanted to chime in. Currently, upgrading the strength rating on a composite bow is not allowed. You have to buy it outright with the STR rating you want. I have seen these few problems so far:
I definitely see your concerns. I've spent some time thinking on this myself, and I think in the end the issues are smaller than you realize. Let me address each of your points individually:
1. Anyone wanting to use a comp. bow with any proficiency can't buy one from level 1. 150gp only gets you a regular shortbow or longbow, which you then have to scrap after your first adventure (it's like a 50gp tax on anyone wanting to use comp. bows, I know it's not a lot but at level 1 that potion of CLW can be a saver).
The mistake here is assuming that you need to get a bow before your first scenario (especially when you already know you're going to upgrade). Get a free sling instead. Yes, it's shorter range, but the reloading isn't costing you much since you can't full-attack for multiple shots yet, and you get your STR bonus to damage automatically. It works great for tiding you over until you can afford your "real" bow. So your Point #1 is easily bypassed.
2. Wizards (elves?) are screwed of ever getting one as their arcane bond.
Having a weapon as your bonded item means you have to be wielding it to cast spells (else you have to make an epic concentration check). So I don't think this one's an issue. However, a wizard is also allowed to change items for a modest fee, so they can switch if they really want to. Again, this doesn't seem like that big of a deal.
3. Archers have a hard decision at some point. Let's say I built my Archer Bard with 15 STR. After my first few scenarios, I cashed in for a mwk composite shortbow (+2 STR) which I later upgraded to a composite shortbow (+2 STR) +1. When I get to level 4, I might have wanted to put that 1 ability upgrade in STR to bring me to 16 STR and a +3 mod. All melee classes doing this get an instant bonus to damage. As an archer, if I wanted to benefit I would have to sell and rebuy my bow (1000+gp down the drain, plus cost of new +1 bow).
A couple of things here. First, having a +1 weapon before 4th level is questionable, because that 2,000gp gets you nothing but +1 damage compared to the masterwork version. That's horrifically expensive for early levels, and should probably be delayed a while.
But aside from that, also consider that there are things which can lower your STR score, which will give you penalties while trying to use a composite bow. As such, I've heard of many archers carrying more than one bow, each with a different STR rating. So maybe this is where you want to be after all, rather than something that you want to avoid.
Alternatively, you could just not buy a 15 STR in the first place and put those two stat points elsewhere.
3a. I think it would be interesting if I had to make the decision of a STR (for damage) or a DEX (for AC/atk bonus) belt on my archer. But with un-upgradeable comp bows there is no reason to take the STR one. Or the DEX/STR one for that matter.
This is perhaps your most valid concern. Even so, see above.
3b. I guess the ONE option is to purchase a comp bow with higher STR rating from the get go, to account for where you want to eventually get to. But of course, the penalties until you do get there make it so you probably will never fire it in the first place. If you were able to cast Bull's Strength consistently it MIGHT be an option, but then again why aren't you casting it on the Barb or Paly instead?
This goes back to my first point: you don't have to have your final weapon right away, and things which make you want to upgrade progressively are not inherently bad.
One more thing: remember that 2PP can get you a MWK Comp Longbow with a STR rating of up to +3, for 0gp. :)
By the way, I'm not thinking this is absolutely gamebreaking in any way. I still have fun with my archer as it is (stuck with +2 str mod). I was more wondering if not allowing the upgrade was done purely for thematical reasons or if there is an actual balance problem by allowing it.
First, having a +1 weapon before 4th level is questionable, because that 2,000gp gets you nothing but +1 damage compared to the masterwork version.
It also adds a way to overcome DR (which you can start seeing at lvl 4-5) although there is oil of magic weapon for that too. And you are going to need it anyway for later upgrades (to +2 or seeking or whatever). But I do agree with your loosing STR point as well.
One more thing: remember that 2PP can get you a MWK Comp Longbow with a STR rating of up to +3, for 0gp. :)
I did this, but Darkwood for good measure! (I think it was shortbow though)
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
First, having a +1 weapon before 4th level is questionable, because that 2,000gp gets you nothing but +1 damage compared to the masterwork version.It also adds a way to overcome DR (which you can start seeing at lvl 4-5) although there is oil of magic weapon for that too. And you are going to need it anyway for later upgrades (to +2 or seeking or whatever). But I do agree with your loosing STR point as well.
My point was more that you probably shouldn't have it yet, because (as you noted) the oil of magic weapon can get you past the DR much cheaper, and in the meantime that 2k gold can get you +1 to armor and a Cloak of Resistance +1. Really, you probably shouldn't be buying a +1 weapon until it's the cheapest upgrade/item available.
And to bring it back to relevance, that means that your 4th-level stat bump to STR causing you to need a new bow doesn't cost you nearly as much money as if you already had your +1 bow.
And to bring it back to relevance, that means that your 4th-level stat bump to STR causing you to need a new bow doesn't cost you nearly as much money as if you already had your +1 bow.
This is true. Waiting till 4th might not be the worst thing if you are planning to do the 15->16 bump. (My archer is 14 STR and staying there, so it's not as relevant, but I have seen other players with the problem).
I'm still left with the question on if there is a balancing problem on allowing the upgrade, in case anyone wants to for whatever reason. I guess the "simplicity of maintaining the no upgrades for mundane equipment" could be a reason.
Upgrading the Str rating was originally allowed as an exception to the Core Rules. The folks in charge then decided to get rid of the exception and run composite bows by RAW.
Bows and Archers are super powerful in PFS (since none of the NPCs have discovered "Deflect Arrows")!