Animate Dead max HD controlled


Rules Questions


Animate Dead allows a caster to control up to 4 HD of undead per caster level. Assume a 5th level cleric uses an Orange Prism Ioun stone when casting Animate Dead. His caster level is 6 when he casts the spell. He increases his total HD of controlled undead to 24. He goes to sleep and stows the ioun stone, removing the +1 to caster level. Now, his caster level is 5. Does he immediately lose control of 4 HD of undead? What happens if a rogue attempts to Use Magic Device on a scroll of Animate Dead? Since he has no actual caster level, does he immediately lose control of any undead he animates?

Alternately, is caster level only checked when the spell is cast? If that is the case, could a caster theoretically boost his caster level through the roof before casting Animate Dead in order to get the cap as high as possible?


tos_shai_hulud wrote:

Animate Dead allows a caster to control up to 4 HD of undead per caster level. Assume a 5th level cleric uses an Orange Ioun stone when casting Animate Dead. His caster level is 6 when he casts the spell. He increases his total HD of controlled undead to 24. He goes to sleep and stows the ioun stone, removing the +1 to caster level. Now, his caster level is 5. Does he immediately lose control of 4 HD of undead? What happens if a rogue attempts to Use Magic Device on a scroll of Animate Dead? Since he has no actual caster level, does he immediately lose control of any undead he animates?

Alternately, is caster level only checked when the spell is cast? If that is the case, could a caster theoretically boost his caster level through the roof before casting Animate Dead in order to get the cap as high as possible?

Due to interactions with magic items, I'd have to say that it checks caster level when the spell is cast or whenever it specifically notes to recheck it. Temporary reductions in caster level, such as negative levels, shouldn't cause everyone to have to re-calculate HD limits (though I'm sure many will disagree for one reason or another).

If a rogue uses an item of animate dead (which has a caster level) then it should use the wand's caster level to determine how many the rogue controls (I would suggest that it uses the highest current caster level, though I could see that each magic item is a separate instance of caster levels). So if a rogue casts animate dead from a CL 12 scroll, then he controls the undead as if a 12th level caster.

And you can indeed have multiple different caster levels. A cleric/wizard/theurge has 2 different caster levels, both of which are capable of supporting animate dead. This means that a wizard 7/cleric 3/theurge 10 can control 30 combined caster levels worth of undead, 32 with ioun stone, 34 with death knell, and possibly push a bit further with traits.

As to your second question, I see no reason why not. A typical sacrificial ritual in which the cleric casts death knell to boost caster level before preforming an animation is pretty standard; I think.

There is little information about it, but my explanation for why I believe the caster level is checked when you cast it is purely because animate dead has no duration. It is an Instantaneous spell, which means the magic comes and goes, and there are no lingering effects or strings beyond those specifically mentioned as part of casting the spell.

The Exchange

Ashiel wrote:

Due to interactions with magic items, I'd have to say that it checks caster level when the spell is cast or whenever it specifically notes to recheck it. Temporary reductions in caster level, such as negative levels, shouldn't cause everyone to have to re-calculate HD limits (though I'm sure many will disagree for one reason or another).

If a rogue uses an item of animate dead (which has a caster level) then it should use the wand's caster level to determine how many the rogue controls (I would suggest that it uses the highest current caster level, though I could see that each magic item is a separate instance of caster levels). So if a rogue casts animate dead from a CL 12 scroll, then he controls the undead as if a 12th level caster.

And you can indeed have multiple different caster levels. A cleric/wizard/theurge has 2 different caster levels, both of which are capable of supporting animate dead. This means that a wizard 7/cleric 3/theurge 10 can control 30 combined caster levels worth of undead, 32 with ioun stone, 34 with death knell, and possibly push a bit further with traits.

As to your second question, I see no reason why not. A typical sacrificial ritual in which the cleric casts death knell to boost caster level before preforming an animation is pretty standard; I think.

There is little information about it, but my explanation for why I believe the caster level is checked when you cast it is purely because animate dead has no duration. It is an Instantaneous spell, which means the magic comes and goes, and there are no lingering effects or strings beyond those specifically mentioned as part of casting the spell.

This does raise one valid point regarding the spell being instantaneous and thus the check occurs at the time of casting. It raises the argument that this spell has no daily check to maintain control for each day after it's initial casting. With that, the argument that a loss of CL after casting would essentially become unimportant, as at the time of casting, the caster met all the requirements for controlling all the undead and so continues to have the ability to do so.


Duniagdra DaaMyour wrote:
This does raise one valid point regarding the spell being instantaneous and thus the check occurs at the time of casting. It raises the argument that this spell has no daily check to maintain control for each day after it's initial casting. With that, the argument that a loss of CL after casting would essentially become unimportant, as at the time of casting, the caster met all the requirements for controlling all the undead and so continues to have the ability to do so.

I'm actually perfectly fine with that. It cuts down on bookkeeping in the extreme. God knows it would be awful if every time a caster got hit with enervation they had to stop the game to recalculate which of their undead minions they were going to keep controlling. Also, it works well for things like Death Knell. Sacrificing animals (or people for those really evil clerics) to improve your caster level for Animate Dead is kind of a common usage, I'd think.

It's not exactly like having more HD worth of controlled undead is really that impressive. Skeletons and zombies kind of suck on the power-o'-meter. By high levels, they're a combination of pack-mules and flavor. It can just feel cool to know you've got a horde of weeny undead at your beck and call. Even 20+ HD skeletons and zombies with desecrate buffs to HP and attacks aren't exactly going to register high on the scale of power later on. They work pretty good as meat shields though. :)

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