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Another thread got me thinking of all this again. I had some real issues when reading about travelling to and from a plane with a timeless quality in the GMG.
From the PRD:
Timeless: On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the effects of time are diminished. How the timeless trait affects certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the effects of poison, and healing varies from plane to plane. The danger of a timeless plane is that once an individual leaves such a plane for one where time flows normally, conditions such as hunger and aging occur retroactively. If a plane is timeless with respect to magic, any spell cast with a noninstantaneous duration is permanent until dispelled.
I have a real problem with the sentence in bold. The whole concept assumes that there is a definite, universal time, when in reality, time flows at different rates in different places in our own galaxy. Even here on Earth, time flows in different rates in different places.
[This is, for instance, how the GPS system works. Time flows a little bit more quickly for the gps satellites in orbit than it does on the surface because the force of gravity is weaker in orbit. Effectively, the stronger the force of gravity, the more slowly time flows. The satellites are also traveling at a high velocity, which also slows the flow of time. The system measures this small difference and uses it to triangulate your position on earth.]
The system, as it is in the book, doesn't make any sense. If I ever have players go into a timeless realm, time will simply resume when they leave that realm, at whatever rate time flows at the realm they enter.
Consider:
Our heroes leave Golarion (prime material plane, "normal" time). We'll call it Plane A.
They enter a timeless plane, let's call it Plane B. They remain there for "3 years". Okay, right here there's already a problem. How can you say they remain there for three years, when by definition, the plane is timeless--there's no such thing as three years. I suppose what we're really saying is they are gone for 3 years on their original plane - Plane A.
The heroes now leave Plane B, but they don't return to Plane A, rather they go to yet another plane, Plane C, that has Flowing Time, where time goes faster than their home plane of Plane A. They stay on this plane for a week, but that equals a year on Plane A. They then return to Plane A.
Now, I understand the purpose of keeping track of the time that has passed on Plane A while all this has been going on. We're assuming eventually the heroes will return to Plane A, and we'll need to know how much time has passed while they're were gone. (In this example, when they return to Plane A, they'll find that 4 years have passed.)
My problem is in saying that the time spent on the timeless plane "catches up with them" when they leave it. It just doesn't make any sense. The plane is timeless, so no time passed while they were on that plane, by definition. To say that time did pass, even though it seemed not to, is to assume that there is a static reality to time in the universe, which simply is not the case. Time is fluid and flows and different rates in different places.
Instead of saying time "catches up", I think it would be much more elegant, and realistic, to say that no time has passed while they were on the timeless plane. They essentially leave the plane at the same time they entered it. [You could just as easily say they arrive at their home plane at a completely random time, which is equally valid, just messier. They could get home BEFORE they left as easily as they could get home after.]
I think it would also make more sense to say that any magic that is anything other than an instantaneous effect or permanent (any spell with a duration) simply ends whenever you enter or leave a timeless plane. This makes a lot more sense than trying to shoehorn in a static universal time that simply doesn't exist.
Any thoughts on this?
I agree with a lot of your points, but I feel I should point out that the "Timeless" title is a bit of a misnomer. "Timeless" planes aren't actually timeless. They're more . . . ageless. Time still accrues, passes, or flies by, but it doesn't affect the plane or its inhabitants as it normally would on a normal plane. Ignoring entirely the absurd level of irregularities this would create and require in any being's physiology, it's just a trumped up game mechanic, that's all.
Myself, I usually just rule these planes to be ageless. When a character plays around in one, he comes back after a set amount of time and simply hasn't aged. The world has gone on without him (or faster or slower than him, if it's a reduced/increased time plane), but time is still measure. It's more of a "time runs at different rates in different places" kind of thing to me. If you've ever read Joel Rosenberg's Guardians of the Flame novels, I believe his dimensions work similarly.
But if you prefer for them to actually BE "timeless," as they claim to be, do it. That's as good, and as fun, an idea as anything else. It does also have the added benefit of being more realistic than the core setup. I, myself, dislike the gaminess of retroactive time constraints. As the DM, you're totally free to do what you want. If you find this rule silly, or nonsensical, oust it. Make a better one. That's one of the best things about these types of games. Most importantly, do what's fun. :)
But you might get more responses to this in the Advice forum, though. Just a thought. Us old codgers in Rules mostly like to discuss cold, hard fact. ;)
I've pretty much settled on house-ruling out the "time catches up with you" clause. In the case of greater create demiplane, the creator can choose whether or not No Immortal Inertia kicks in upon leaving.
Actions take time, so time exists in any dimension that's worth visiting. Otherwise the game ends. "You manage to finally reach the fabled Eterna. Since time does not exist there, you cannot do anything. You will exist forever, but it doesn't matter. Fini."
The way that the rules are written is like one of the old Underhill tropes. There is a tradition in literature where one of the dangers of visiting a fae realm is that if you join a dance, then you might dance your whole life away, due to being unaware of the passage of time. So, a "timeless" dimension is just one where certain effects of time are suppressed. Leave the dimension, remove the suppression.
Of course, you don't have to do it that way. You're free to rule that the suppression is like an instantaneous effect that isn't undone when they leave, and also that time passes at different rates in different dimensions. However, I would advise ruling that if aging is suppressed, then so is maturity: no getting the bonuses of old age without the penalties.