Turning Concepts into Builds

[Meophist]

I have a few character concepts in mind and would like to know what would be a good way of building it. I don't have a particular game I'm building it for; I'm more trying to get a hold on as to how to build characters in general.

Character Concept
This is basically the first D&D character I've made but I haven't used it in Pathfinder or anything. This character is mostly defined by her singular strength: her awareness of her surroundings. She's incredibly perceptive, with heightened senses compared to most people. She often sees things that other people can't or don't perceive. Over time, the difference she finds between her perception of the world and others' leads to a loss of self-confidence and ends up being withdrawn socially. She tends to be rather practical over various matters and isn't the most fond of relying on others, although she will if she has to.

The initial concept had her using a crossbow and gauntlet as weapons, but that can be flexible. Um... not quite sure what else I can say about this character. I can give out a family tree, but I don't think that'll quite help for character building, and I'd rather be more flexible for something like this. One idea is that she's not particularly strong, so I want to lean her in more of a skill user.

In any case, this is a build I was thinking of:
Half-Elf Rogue[Scout] or Ninja[Scout] 1
STR 11 DEX 14 CON 7 INT 7 WIS 20 CHA 7 (Assuming 15-point buy)
STR 10 DEX 14 CON 7 INT 11 WIS 20 CHA 7 (Assuming 20-point buy)
STR 12 DEX 14 CON 8 INT 12 WIS 20 CHA 7 (Assuming 25-point buy)

Uses Light Crossbow and Gauntlet, not sure about armour.

Feats: Skill Focus(Perception) & Alertness

Skills:
Perception - 1(Rank) +3(Class Skill) +5(Wisdom) +5(Feat) +2(Racial) = +16
Sense Motive - 1(Rank) +3(Class Skill) +5(Wisdom) +2(Feat) = +11
Disable Device - 1(Rank) +3(Class Skill) +2(Dexterity) = +6
Stealth - 1(Rank) +3(Class Skill) +2(Dexterity) = +6
Survival - 1(Rank) +5(Wisdom) = +6
Heal - 1(Rank) +5(Wisdom) = +6
(20-point buy)Acrobatics - 1(Rank) +3(Class Skill) +2(Dexterity) = +6
(20-point buy)Profession(Cartographer) - 1(Rank) +3(Class Skill) +5(Wisdom) = +9
(25-point buy)Knowledge(Geography) - 1(Rank) +1(Intelligence) = +2

This is probably a pretty horrible build, but it's what I've thought up of thus far. I was thinking about using a Ranger for this, but the favoured enemy/favoured terrain seems a bit limiting. What are some thoughts? How would you build such a character?

[blackbloodtroll]

There are ranger archetypes that replace favored enemy if you do not like it. There is also the Inquisitor to consider.

[Corlindale]

Ranger will probably work nicely. The Guide archetype trades out favoured enemy for a more generally applicable power (though it's also more limited in uses per day).

Ninja and/or rogue will also work pretty well. Inquisitors, as mentioned, also do the whole perception thing pretty well and have the crossbow proficiencies, but you may not like the whole religion-fluff.

Crossbows are generally inferior to bows and require a greater feat investment to be effective (rangers can afford this more easily).

[Meophist]

Looking at the Inquisitors, I don't really see much that'll help the character with Perception checks, aside from it being a class skill.

As for the Ranger, the favoured terrain does give Perception bonuses, although it seems a bit limited. The Wild Stalker can give up to +7 and is less limited.

I was looking at the Archaeologist Bard as well, as they give up to a +10. I'm not sure if it fits well with the character, however.

The best thing to improve Perception checks, it seems looks like the Terrain Mastery Rogue Talent. If I get it 19 times, then it could be a bonus up to +38 for one terrain, or +10 for the fourteenth worst terrain. I'm not quite sure how many terrains people typically play through, but it seems to be only worse than the Archaeologist after the fourteenth, which doesn't seem all that bad.

[blackbloodtroll]

Warden archetype rangers get favored terrain at first level.

[Corlindale]

19 times?! While this appears to be technically legal, it's not even remotely worth investing every single rogue talent and every single feat into. Are there even that many terrains?

Archaeologist is a nice archetype. Could be fluffed to be something else than an actual archaeologist, so flavour need not be a huge concern. The Detective Bard also gets half level to Perception, and his powers are also all about awareness and detection.

A dip in Synthesist Summoner can give you +8 perception.

May be obvious, but Alertness and Skill Focus gives a potential total of +10 Perception. Combine with a trait that gives Perception as a class skill, and any class can be a potential master of awareness.

But in practice, there will be a point when optimizing perception further simply isn't worth it- unless you simply want the theoretical maximum Perception bonus, at the expense of everything else.

[Meophist]

Corlindale wrote:

19 times?! While this appears to be technically legal, it's not even remotely worth investing every single rogue talent and every single feat into. Are there even that many terrains?

Archaeologist is a nice archetype. Could be fluffed to be something else than an actual archaeologist, so flavour need not be a huge concern. The Detective Bard also gets half level to Perception, and his powers are also all about awareness and detection.

A dip in Synthesist Summoner can give you +8 perception.

May be obvious, but Alertness and Skill Focus gives a potential total of +10 Perception. Combine with a trait that gives Perception as a class skill, and any class can be a potential master of awareness.

But in practice, there will be a point when optimizing perception further simply isn't worth it- unless you simply want the theoretical maximum Perception bonus, at the expense of everything else.

Well, just thinking...

If you get Terrain Mastery 19 times, you get +38 to the first favoured terrain. +20 ranks, +3 class skill, +2 racial, +10 in feats, and +5 Wisdom(assuming it doesn't go up). That gives you +78 to Perception.

From the other side, an invisible creature gets +40 when not moving and can get all of the other bonuses that the bonuses to Perception can get, so that's around +118 to Stealth. A simple +78 is rather lacking in comparison.

The +8 for Synthesist may help.

I was just thinking that it's good for a character to have a particular strength. Something that they're better than anybody else at.

[Meophist]

...I feel like I'm going off track. I can get a little obsessive about some things. Probably not a good thing for character building.

[Aazen]

I would think with the high wis and dex that you would consider monk. It also ties in to using the gauntlet as a weapon choice. Take a look:

Supah not a ninja:

UNNAMED HERO CR 1
Male Half-Elf Monk 1 Rogue 1
LN Medium Humanoid (Elf, Human)
Init +6; Senses Low-Light Vision; Perception +16
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 18, touch 18, flat-footed 13 (+4 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 19 (2d8+2)
Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +5
Immune sleep; Resist Elven Immunities
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike +1 (1d6+1/20/x2)
Ranged Crossbow, Light +4 (1d8/19-20/x2)
Special Attacks Flurry of Blows -1/-1, Sneak Attack +1d6
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 12, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 7
Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 19
Feats Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Rogue Weapon Proficiencies, Sharp Senses, Skill Focus: Perception (Adaptability), Stunning Fist (1/day) (DC 14)
Traits Reactionary, Seeker of Brightness: Knowledge (Geography)
Skills Acrobatics +9, Disable Device +9, Escape Artist +8, Heal +4, Knowledge (Geography) +2, Perception +16, Sense Motive +8, Stealth +8, Survival +4, Use Magic Device +2
Languages Common, Elven, Strix
SQ AC Bonus +3, Elf Blood, Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex), Trapfinding +1, Unarmed Strike (1d6)
Combat Gear Bolts, Crossbow (40), Crossbow, Light;
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
AC Bonus +3 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Elf Blood You are counted as both elves and humans for any effect relating to race.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to Sleep effects.
Flurry of Blows -1/-1 (Ex) Make Flurry of Blows attack as a full action.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Sneak Attack +1d6 +1d6 damage if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.
Stunning Fist (1/day) (DC 14) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Trapfinding +1 +1 to find or disable traps.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.

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Feats to also consider tieing into the 'Daredevil' concept: Improved Init., Alertness, Eagle Eyes, Weapon Finesse

[Meophist]

Aazen wrote:

I would think with the high wis and dex that you would consider monk. It also ties in to using the gauntlet as a weapon choice. Take a look:

** spoiler omitted **...

That sounds rather good. When I first made this character, she was a ranger who used a bow. I wasn't really sure what I was doing and ended up taking the two-weapon style while getting bow-related feats with her normal feats. Although I wanted to go for gauntlet + crossbow, I couldn't really justify a reason when those options just seem weaker than using a more normal melee weapon + bow without any particular advantages.

I like the idea of using unarmed strikes for close combat. Makes it so she's always prepared. I'm still not particularly sure about the crossbow, as it seems worse overall compared to the bow if the Strength modifier is not negative. Still, it may not be too big of a disadvantage. Ninja might be nice for a bigger Ki pool and unarmed combat mastery, but doesn't have trapfinding. Choices choices...

Thanks for that anyways.

[Phneri]

Have you considered the zen archer monk? Bow-focused but can still do unarmed strikes, and after 3rd level becomes largely wisdom-based (easier synergy for perception)

[Aazen]

Zen Archer is good, but then you loose the up close and personal touch. If you dont like the crossbow, you can get shruiken. Dex based weapon you can flurry with.

[Thorkull]

I know it's a radical departure from what has been discussed, but if you really want that "sees what others do not" feel, you could go with an Oracle, seer archetype, with either Lore or Time mystery. You'd get access to a lot of divination magic, which would help you "see the future" and become aware of things before they happen.

[Meophist]

Thorkull wrote:

I know it's a radical departure from what has been discussed, but if you really want that "sees what others do not" feel, you could go with an Oracle, seer archetype, with either Lore or Time mystery. You'd get access to a lot of divination magic, which would help you "see the future" and become aware of things before they happen.

That could be an interesting idea. Using that with the Clouded Vision or Deaf curses can be particularly interesting.