Escape artist and grapple?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Why is it that Escape Artist can be used to turn one's self from the "grappled" into the "grappler?"
Using CMB or EA to escape a Grapple/Pin makes perfect sense to me, but using CMB or EA to take over a grapple doesn't make any sense at all.


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Because reversing the grapple is HOW you escape from it, at least in my experience in the dojo.


But the issue is that you don't have to escape, even though you're allowed to use Escape Artist. That seems an unfair advantage in some cases where the higher skill will always trump the non-full BAB class and that class, unless specifically built to grapple, will almost always have issues maintaining a grapple.
Just doesn't seem fair to the (initial) grappler.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hey, if I put ranks in Escape Artist I want something out of it apart from that one in 5 years opportunity to free myself from bounds.


If EA is a "one in 5 year" occurrence in your games, isn't that the fault of the GM not putting you in situations you've built for, instead of some inherent weakness with a skill? ;)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm the GM, and I don't find it bad that I don't have to intentionally throw the EA player in bondage every 3 sessions just so he can use the skill. Especially if the skill has another use that's much more useful for the player, has an in-combat use (few skills do), and doesn't require me to tinker with the world to make everyone happy.

Also, what Dabbler said. My mediocre experiences in freeing myself from grapples in Aikido are pretty much the same - you either go the brute way and escape the grapple(harder, but requires no skill) or you try to take over the grapple by your technique (easier, but requires training). And that's pretty much what the rules reflect.

Liberty's Edge

I never realised that Escape Artist could be used to reverse the grapple - yeah, my initial reaction is that I don't like that at all.

Though thinking about it I guess you basically break free and then just grab at the clothing of the person you just escaped from - if you have a great Escape Artist modifier but a poor CMD and CMB then when it comes time for your foe to reverse the grapple or break free they are going to do so easily, and even if they don't when it comes time to maintain the grapple even with the +5 circumstance bonus you may struggle.

So end result is that if you use Escape Artist to reverse a grapple, but have a poor CMD & CMD expect to have the grapple reversed on you again almost straight away or find yourself unable to maintain the grapple anyway.

So not as bad as all that really.


Neo2151 wrote:

But the issue is that you don't have to escape, even though you're allowed to use Escape Artist. That seems an unfair advantage in some cases where the higher skill will always trump the non-full BAB class and that class, unless specifically built to grapple, will almost always have issues maintaining a grapple.

Just doesn't seem fair to the (initial) grappler.

Yes but as DigitalMage pointed out, you may not stay that way for long. It's great for escaping or reversing the grapple - but maintaining it? All this means is a slippery customer can tie up a skilled grappler.

Grand Lodge

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I delight in any RPG conversation where people can end a sentence with "based on my experience in the dojo."
*sits back with popcorn*


KestlerGunner wrote:

I delight in any RPG conversation where people can end a sentence with "based on my experience in the dojo."

*sits back with popcorn*

At the end of the day, verisimilitude requires the game emulate real life at some point, and that's actually the point here. The OP was posing a question of the game system that challenged his idea of reality. Other than replying 'because the rules say so' you have to dip into Real Life to justify the answer.

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