Actions! Escape Artist vs Entangle: Which one is correct?

[Stynkk]

There is a discrepancy in what kind of action is listed in the Escape Artist skill for breaking free from the Entangle spell. Escape Artist states it's a Full-Round Action to break free, while the Entangle spell proper lists a Move Action to attempt to break free.

Let's start with Entangle (see bolded text) -

PRD - Core - Magic Chapter - Spell Index - Entangle wrote:

This spell causes tall grass, weeds, and other plants to wrap around creatures in the area of effect or those that enter the area. Creatures that fail their save gain the entangled condition. Creatures that make their save can move as normal, but those that remain in the area must save again at the end of your turn. Creatures that move into the area must save immediately. Those that fail must end their movement and gain the entangled condition. Entangled creatures can attempt to break free as a move action, making a Strength or Escape Artist check. The DC for this check is equal to the DC of the spell. The entire area of effect is considered difficult terrain while the effect lasts.

We see from the spell, Escape Artist is a Move Action when escaping from Entangle.

While in the Escape Artist Skill there is a different listing.

PRD - Core - Skill Descriptions - Escape Artist wrote:

Action: Making an Escape Artist check to escape from rope bindings, manacles, or other restraints (except a grappler) requires 1 minute of work. Escaping from a net or an animate rope, command plants, control plants, or entangle spell is a full-round action. Escaping from a grapple or pin is a standard action.

Which is correct? I believe the entangle spell should take precedence but the cloudiness (and specificity) of the Escape Artist skill makes me think that an errata is necessary.

Is there a place to list errata candidates for the CRB?

[Jiggy]

Well whaddya know? That's a clean-cut contradiction if I ever saw one. Clicked the FAQ button for you. :)

[Stynkk]

Jiggy wrote:

Well whaddya know? That's a clean-cut contradiction if I ever saw one. Clicked the FAQ button for you. :)

Thanks Jiggy.. let's get _____!

[Axl]

I have tagged the question for FAQ.

From the spell description, an entangled character could potentially make up to two checks per turn to escape. These could be Strength checks rather than escape artist checks. From a game balance point of view, I don't think that entangled characters should be allowed two attempts per turn.

In my opinion, it would be better to make it a standard action to escape, on a par with grapple checks. (Actually, I think that grapple checks, not Strength checks, should be allowed to escape.) If it was a standard action, entangled characters would have one attempt per turn. If successful, they would still have movement available.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I agree w/ you, the spell text should take priority, but hitting FAQ.

[Stynkk]

I hope this makes it into the next round of errata for the CRB. Thanks everyone for FAQ'n it up!

[Jeraa]

In 3.5, It was a full round action (both in the skill, and the Entangle spell).

[Knight Magenta]

Specific override's general. Thus, the spell description wins. So it is a move action for the entangle spell and full round for other things.

[Stynkk]

Knight Magenta wrote:

Specific override's general. Thus, the spell description wins. So it is a move action for the entangle spell and full round for other things.

Great rule of thumb, but the Escape Artist entry states: "Escaping from a net or an animate rope, command plants, control plants, or entangle spell is a full-round action."

So what do you do when specific conflicts specific?

[Jiggy]

Bumping for more clicks. Come on, people! Let's get this fixed!

[Lab_Rat]

The problem is that they are both "Specific" for the entangle spell. I agree with the need for errata.

A full-round action wouldn't necessarily bump the difficulty of leaving the entangle area but it would make it a minimum 2 rounds (1 round to escape + 1 round to leave the area) to get out instead of 1 (1 move to escape + 1 move to leave the area).

[Castarr4]

Well... ain't that something. Good catch. FAQ-ing and bumping for interest.

[CBDunkerson]

It seems to me that Entangle got downgraded slightly from v3.5 to Pathfinder and the time required for an Escape Artist check was correspondingly decreased in the spell description, but overlooked in the skill section... which is now inconsistent.

Specifically, in v3.5 the spell held you completely motionless unless you made the saving throw, in which case you could move at half speed. In Pathfinder this is changed so that you can move at half speed if you FAIL the save or full speed if you succeed. Escape Artist lists increasing amounts of time for an escape attempt based on the degree of restraint. Entangle no longer makes sense as a full round action in that sequence given that it is now less restrictive than any of the other examples.

There is an extra complication in that the 'entangled' condition has a note about being unable to move if the restraints are 'anchored' and differing interpretations of how that applies to the spell. I'd probably rule that the degree of restraint, and thus the time needed to make an Escape Artist attempt, varies with the nature of the foliage. Patch of tall grass... move equivalent action. Lots of thick hanging vines... full round action.

[Stynkk]

CBDunkerson wrote:

It seems to me that Entangle got downgraded slightly from v3.5 to Pathfinder and the time required for an Escape Artist check was correspondingly decreased in the spell description, but overlooked in the skill section... which is now inconsistent.

Interesting, I was not aware of the legacy reasons for this change only that it existed. Hopefully the Editors will take a look at this claim when the next CRB errata is issued.

[T'Challa]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but where was this answered in the FAQ? I can't find it in the core rule book or ultimate magic (on the chance it was a clean up of several spells).