Attacking with a tower shield

[Magicdealer]

Ok, so I know that a tower shield is prevented from shield bashing and from having shield spikes. However, the concept that is floating around in my head involves a fighter/paladin wielding two tower shields.

So.

While I cannot normally use a tower shield to attack with, is it rules legal to use the main hand tower shield as an improvised weapon?

And yes, I know that the shield bonuses don't stack. Actually, I was considering grabbing defending with my offensive tower shield (another rules legal question), and taking the fighter tower shield specialist archetype to go with it. I'm still not done perusing the paladin options, but I wanted a proof of concept before I spent too much more time on it.

[Mergy]

You are better off with two heavy shields. They can be big heavy shields if you like, even tower-sized; just put heavy shield on your character sheet and call them towers shields in character.

Going full fighter and eventually getting Shield Master will let you bash with your 'tower' shields and TWF without penalty.

[blackbloodtroll]

Actually, two handing a heavy shield is better, as it adds x1.5 strength, and suffers no penalties as associated with two-weapon fighting. It will also do more damage with power attack.

[Archaeik]

I looked over a bunch of stuff related to what you asked...

Not really eager to cite every bit of it, but this is how I see it:

Shield, Tower: wrote:

This massive wooden shield is nearly as tall as you are. In most situations, it provides the indicated shield bonus to your AC. As a standard action, however, you can use a tower shield to grant you total cover until the beginning of your next turn. When using a tower shield in this way, you must choose one edge of your space. That edge is treated as a solid wall for attacks targeting you only. You gain total cover for attacks that pass through this edge and no cover for attacks that do not pass through this edge (see Combat). The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding. You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else.

Short answer - No, that last part effectively means "use your hand for anything other than wielding the tower shield as a shield"

Long answer - A light shield is a light weapon, a heavy shield is a 1H weapon. Based on that last sentence of the tower shield description, I would say it should only be usable as a 2H improvised weapon.
Furthermore, Imp Shield Bash could not apply to this 2H attack since it's not a bash.

So, while you could archetype away the -2 on attack rolls, you'd never be able to attack and retain a tower's 'shield bonus'.

Titan Mauler could potentially allow you to do this 1H while equipped with a 2nd tower shield however...

None of that is actually RAW though (as there isn't much of a provision for such an attack in the RAW)

Quote:

Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

So a Greatclub maybe? I think it's definitely big enough to be considered 2H if you can fit your whole self behind it for cover.

I'd even think some DMs would rule it to be 'higher than 2H'...

[Mergy]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Actually, two handing a heavy shield is better, as it adds x1.5 strength, and suffers no penalties as associated with two-weapon fighting. It will also do more damage with power attack.

I have a ranger/fighter who does this. He got Shield Slam without the prerequisites with ranger combat style, and is working his way up to Shield Master (although he'll take a long run through Horizon Walker first).

[The Mighty Khan]

Actually, Archie, I would say that you hit the nail right on the head when you said that your tower shield hand couldn't be used "for anything other than wielding the tower shield as a shield."

I think that RAW, one can never use a tower shield as a shield and also as a weapon. I agree that it would be two handed and that the "shield" hand could not count as one of those two hands.

So to use a tower shield as a weapon, you would have to unstrap it, and grab it as though you were about to hit someone with a giant encyclopedia.

The only way out I can think of is the Alchemist's Vestigial Arm. One hand wields the shield while the other two use it as a weapon. It wouldn't be a shield bash, so it wouldn't qualify for shield bash feats. But, it is possible.

[Magicdealer]

Well, the idea is the character is holding two tower shields. One he uses as an improvised weapon. The other he's holding in his shield hand as a tower shield.

I know that the character is more effective with two heavy shields, but I really wanted to try to make it work with tower shields

[blackbloodtroll]

A large heavy shield would keep the flavor, and you could probably use it for cover.

[The Mighty Khan]

Magicdealer wrote:

Well, the idea is the character is holding two tower shields. One he uses as an improvised weapon. The other he's holding in his shield hand as a tower shield.

I know that the character is more effective with two heavy shields, but I really wanted to try to make it work with tower shields

The Alchemist can take the vestigial arm discovery twice resulting in a four-armed character...

How opposed would you be to building a double-shielded Goro?

[Magicdealer]

I wouldn't say that I'm opposed to Goro... but I don't think using two tower shields should need the extra hands.

One on the main hand acting at all times as a weapon and not a shield, and one on the off hand acting at all times as a shield and not a weapon.

** Edit **

Well, Archaeik, you do make a good point about the size of improvised weapon a tower shield would make, and about the tower shield specific entry preventing wielding a tower shield in any hand but the shield hand.

I might try large shield main hand and tower shield in off hand (shield hand) instead :/

[bladeboundmaster373]

Well shouldn't the BASE bonuses for the two shields that u r carrying stack? In real life, carrying two humongous shields would provide more defense than one

[Dracoso18]

Well, I will throw my hat into the ring as I have a nice little twist for this situation.

I am running a Phalanx Solder, Fighter archetype and its 3rd level ability reads as such:
Phalanx Fighting (Ex): At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon.

This archetype goes on to give mostly bonuses to tower shields and the ability to defend with them.

While it does not state that this would allow for shield bashing, it does bring to question how capable a fighter of this kind would be to wield that tower shield as a weapon.

If the fighter is capable of wielding a two handed spear in one hand and a tower shield at the same time, could the tower shield be used as a main hand weapon?

Aside from that, if you can get a feat that allows you to keep shield bonus while bashing, why not have a feat that gives you the ability to shield bash with a tower shield. I mean, there is a feat in 3.5 for it and it could translate over exactly as it is.

[CountofUndolpho]

The Mighty Khan wrote:

So to use a tower shield as a weapon, you would have to unstrap it, and grab it as though you were about to hit someone with a giant encyclopedia.

A Tower shield weighs 45lb so more like 'with a (heavy) kitchen table'

The heaviest weapons available at medium size are Harpoon at 16lb or double crossbow at 18lb. A great club is 8lb and a tetsubo is 10lb.

If you tried to use it as a weapon I would say it was 2H, improvised and out sized. Using the size rules to compare to a tetsubo (as it is a metal shod lump of wood) the shield is 4.5x it's weight so the equivalent of a Huge tetsubo.

Which means a medium character would be unable to wield it as a weapon improvised or otherwise.