Celestial Pegasus
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Foreword: This is somewhat of a joke question/brainteaser for fun. It is a legitimate question as I really am interested in making this idea work... it'd be hilarious to successfully pull this off in a Pathfinder session. Nonetheless, finding a workable answer isn't urgent. I wasn't sure whether it belonged here or in Pathfinder RPG General discussion, in any case. That said, let's begin.
As you know, it's entirely possible for creatures in Pathfinder to get pretty high up into the air; certain jumping abilities, teleportation, and especially flight make it viable for your character to get quite the birds-eye-view of the action. It's even possible to get opposing creatures up into the air.
What I want to do, and am hoping to hear practical input on, is get both one's own character and their enemy into the air, to perform the (not even remotely realistic) 'martial arts' technique known as the Izuna Drop. It can be most simply described as an inverted spinning piledriver, and a humorous video demonstrating the technique as it's used in video games can be seen here (will require script allowances for Youtube.com and subdomains thereof): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2B827VA_IAU#t= 28s
Or a longer example (requiring script allowances for GameTrailers.com, volume is somewhat high): http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/usermovies/340651
With the Izuna Drop explained, I'd like to ask you your most rules-practical way, using existing Pathfinder game mechanics and content, to perform one and which sections of the rules to point the DM to when they understandably go "...Wait. What?". The ideal answer will be Pathfinder Society legal, and the lower in level a PC needs to be to pull it off, the better. Still, I'll accept any Pathfinder-general-play valid way to do this. Any class, any skill, any spell, any feat, whatever; so long as it's Paizo published I'll give it a shot.
Edit: The character's survival is optional. It's preferred that they survive it, but not strictly required.
Thanks for any help you can offer!
| Lexarius |
Seems like you'd mainly need to grapple the creature in mid-air. Most creatures probably can't fly while grappled, and some effects that prevent or reduce falling damage might be impeded by either the grappling itself or the extra weight. If you do it from high enough, you might try readying an action to escape from the fall somehow.
Celestial Pegasus
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That's a start! The closest I got was "Grapple a Charmed target so that they're Willing to come with your PC during a Dimension Door casting." In theory, this should handle most of it... but it's a messy solution that requires Charm Person or a similar effect. Will have to find a more efficient way to get the target into the air, one that doesn't require compromising their mental state.
I'm guessing you'd just play this as straight Falling Damage incurred by both the target and 'dropper'?
| Foghammer |
I would at least require a feasible way to get the opponent into the air and follow them (dimension door would be easy; awesome blow [monster feat] could work, maybe, followed by acrobatics to jump) a grapple check to get the opponent under your control, and then an acrobatics check to get the spin going.
There's no way to call out how much damage it would do outside of saying "they take fall damage" but after all of those checks, you're going to expect something right? This is where it gets really tricky, and everyone's going to have a different opinion.
Personally, if one of my players found a feasible way to claim they could do this, I'd reward the creativity. I'd change the damage to 1d6 per 5 feet of falling, plus one per two levels of the attacker (something like a spell's damage). I'd allow a reflex save for the defender though, to roll with the fall once the attacker had to break away to avoid damage. I'd have to think about it some more. The DC would be difficult to figure.
Celestial Pegasus
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Edit: To get myself back on topic, it seems Grapple rules would come up frequently. I wonder if acquiring a Fly speed plus a sufficiently high Strength modifier to CMB (it'd also have to be a high enough Str score to fly with your target in-hand) would work...
On a sillier note, "Awesome Blow" has to be the most incredible name I've ever heard for an attack option granted by a feat. I'm honestly surprised more DMs don't make use of it on their monsters. I'd just have tons of fun saying 'Awesome Blow' all the time.
DM: "The (monster name) uses its Awesome Blow on Ithilbrin... *rolls* and it connects with one hell of a haymaker! You go flying, landing prone right about... here."
Player: "I have to admit that was pretty awesome... painful, but still aptly named."
Celestial Pegasus
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Black Powder Chocobo: That's a good start. I think that gets us in the right direction, at least. The problem with it is that Dimension Door targets must be willing to come along, and Punishing Kick only gets your target about five feet into the air (if that? I don't know if 'empty air' satisfies its requirements on where the target winds up).
What your ideas did do is make me realize a spellcaster might not be necessary. This could be done with a melee-oriented class (Monk, etc.) starting at a sufficient height. For example, fighting on a cliff edge, grabbing your target, and wheeeee! Jump off!
Apparently we have multiple lines of possibilities to make this work. I think the Drop part at least can be done one way or another. Thus I would like to introduce a secondary goal (in addition to the primary one, still running for those who care to contribute) of making the resulting completely ridiculous inverted spinning piledriver even more awesome.
For example, can you cast a Contingency-triggered Fireball on yourself (provided the targeting is aimed such that it hits the square you're in, and it thus "affects your person")? This seems like an odd use of the spell's wording, but if so it would result in an Izuna Drop that triggers a Fireball explosion at the impact site. It's completely absurd, but it would certainly be memorable and increase the damage dealt.
Celestial Pegasus
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That's it. That has enough strength to lift a reasonably heavy target and get it high enough to do a meaningful Izuna Drop. Would have to find some way to follow them, but I think that's the easier part (Readied action to follow them in some way? Grapple them before doing the Telekinesis? This can't be all that hard). Darn shame it costs 70,000 GP, but that Ring does what's needed to set up the Drop. That a variety of classes can use it is a fine bonus. Would need favorable terrain like the aforementioned cliff edge, but it should work.
Thank you!
Now all that remains is to get the damage sufficiently high to justify this needlessly complex, ridiculous technique. I'm still thinking Contingency Fireball if legal...
| thoynan |
Now, a spinning pile driver is easy.
Rd1: Grapple
Rd2: grapple check for movement (1/2 your move speed), jump check, and if you can somehow get another grapple check(tetori?) to pin, BOOM, pin at your apex and it's also falling damage.
Now an inzuna drop, hmmm, that's hard... as it's the pop up, teleport, grapple pin... so you need some sort of fast grapple, grapple>pin/damage, so that's greater grapple for sure...
Ideas:
1)DD wand/Scroll using familiar. A tumor familiar (alch 3) or tatto sorc is good, quick and out of the way. Alch can give you more strenth for the lauch via ragechem or just str syrm. Tat sorc could get an imp or ratling, since his vasarian tattoo has CL=Character level. He could cast the DD after you Awesome blow/Punishing kick/ or bull rush.
2) Some sort of bull rush. Raging bull rush? Ki throw? Everflowing botting set to gyser? AND, some thing that lets you bull rush after wards.
3) Some sort of ranger trap, any spring loaded? A natural weapon style ranger can get running leaps with aspect of the beast... or maybe a ranger has a weird spell for launching. Also, horizon walker has some good odd terrain abilities.
4) Grapple, move action 1/2 your speed UP, and just say you toss them and then follow upward. A monk x/travel domain cleric or inquisitor/ barbarian can have a fat movement speed at low levels, tetori monks get some odd grappling stuff, so do pugilist barbs, like at 5th they're large for grapples.
You could do an Indra catch, by awesomeblow/punishing kick/bull rush UPWARD and and readying an action to grapple lol. INDURA BUCKING!