Some friends of mine have a group going of two casters, one buffing oracle and one ranged ranger. Their big meat shield had to quit due to new father reasons. So they invited me in.
I'm always playing a please don't hit me character, so I decided I would give one of these kensai bladebounds a go. But that was before I found out out what the group needed. So- I'm throwing down the gauntlet to you guys. Can anyone help me build a frontline defending kensai bladebound to make sure everyone stays nice and safe? The extra challenge is that we are all only level three. And pretty poor.
I'm going to be honest here and say that don't think it can be done very well, but a lot of people on this board are smarter than me so I thought I would ask. If not I'll just make a traditional metal lump and everyone will still continue to enjoy themselves.
Are we working with standard Wealth By Level?
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So what are you aiming for? I'm thinking 20 ac which is doable. Elf with an 18 int and dex, due to being only lvl 3 that's ac 17.
Suggestions: can't take them all yet though.
The spell shield
Feat combat expertise
Dodge
Ring of protection
Amulet of natural armor
Toughness
Also note paladins, cavaliers, samurai, and fighters can be more than just metal lumps, the ac comes easy to high str hvy armor classes. The hurt on skills but they can make it work.
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Well, depends on what you mean, but a very effective Kensai/Bladebound can be done with Dex 18, Int 16+, Weapon Finesse, Dervish Dance, and a haramaki (or silken ceremonial armor, for style) at this level. That's AC 18 ignoring magical items (I mean, you can make the armor +1 for only 1k in gold), which isn't bad, especially not since you can jack it to 22 with Shield if you want to. And your damage is right on par with that of other Maguses at a base +8 to hit for 1d6+5, plus any spells. Little low compared to a Fighter sans spells, but not bad at all.
He's not exactly big and imposing physically, but he can do the frontliner thing as well as the next guy.
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You'll need lots of Dex for AC, Int for more AC and spellcasting. Despite the kensai lacking proficiency in armor, you can still wear armor that has no Armor check penalty as if you were proficient in it. So a Haramaki or Silken Ceremonial Armor can be worn with no penalty and no chance of arcane spell failure. In addition, if you don't plan on casting a lot of spells to begin with, you could wear a lamellar curiass (no Armor check penalty, 5% spell failure). You could also take the arcane armor training feat train to help with that, but it would take up a lot of feats you'd want otherwise. If you do that, you'd likely want to go human so you can get an extra feat.
Stats will partially depend on whether you are going all the way to level 16+, where having an INT of 16 or more will allow you to cast 6th level spells. If you're not, a lower INT wouldn't be terrible if you get more STR or CON for it. I'll assume you're going all the way, and 20 PB:
Human
Str 13 (3)
Dex 15 (7)
Con 14 (5)
Int 14 (5) +2 Human = 16
Wis 12 (2)
Cha 8 (-2)
Have your special weapon be an Elven Curve blade, you get proficiency free with the Kensai. Get Agile on it asap, but it'll still give pretty good damage with 1d10+1.
Human feat: Weapon Finesse
1st Level feat: Dodge (if going for Haramaki and spellcasting)
(if going for arcane armor training at level 3: Light Armor Proficiency)
Bonus Feat: Weapon focus (Elven Curved Blade)
3rd level feat: Power attack or Arcane Armor Training
Level 3 Magus Arcana: Spell Shield
I would stick with the Haramaki. If you have normal wealth by level, you should be able to afford a +1 Haramaki (1153) by level 3. Then your AC would be 10+2 Dex +1 dodge + 3 Int + 2 armor = 18, with another 3 when you use spell shield. Not terrible.
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Human feat: Weapon Finesse
1st Level feat: Dodge (if going for Haramaki and spellcasting)
(if going for arcane armor training at level 3: Light Armor Proficiency)
Bonus Feat: Weapon focus (Elven Curved Blade)
3rd level feat: Power attack or Arcane Armor Training
Level 3 Magus Arcana: Spell Shield
This is awful advice. Spell Combat requires a free hand, making two-handed weapons an awful idea. Power Attack is seldom a good idea for a Magus either (reducing the chances to hit with, say, Shocking Grasp as it does).
He also doesn't even get an Arcana at 3rd level, since he's Bladebound.
Get Agile on it asap, but it'll still give pretty good damage with 1d10+1.
I've seen a lot of posts on these forums speaking about the agile or guided qualities. Is it PFS-approved ? I don't see it on Herolab, so I'm wondering.
I don't know if it's PFS-approved. I do know that it's not eligible for a bladebound's Black Blade, unless the DM bends the rules to allow it.
The Black Blade's table has a specific progression, of enhancement bonuses. There's nothing about being able to choose how those are distributed between enhancement bonus and properties; it's straight enhancement bonus.
Now you can stick with the classic scimitar, and for two feats (Weapon Finesse & Dervish Dance) and two ranks of Perform (dance), get the same effect.
Also, a Magus can't take weapon focus at 1st level; you need BAB +1, which you don't have at 1st level.
Ah.
I was viewing "bonus feat" as "level 1 human bonus feat", which wouldn't let you take it. Major reading fail on my part.
Bastard sword or Dwarven War Axe isn't a bad choice.
Edit: Ah, you're finessing. Scratch that. Maybe scimitar?
Human feat: Weapon Finesse
1st Level feat: Dodge (if going for Haramaki and spellcasting)
(if going for arcane armor training at level 3: Light Armor Proficiency)
Bonus Feat: Weapon focus (Elven Curved Blade)
3rd level feat: Power attack or Arcane Armor Training
Level 3 Magus Arcana: Spell ShieldThis is awful advice. Spell Combat requires a free hand, making two-handed weapons an awful idea. Power Attack is seldom a good idea for a Magus either (reducing the chances to hit with, say, Shocking Grasp as it does).
He also doesn't even get an Arcana at 3rd level, since he's Bladebound.
Errm, right, sorry. I'd let the curve blade be one-handed as a houserule in my campaign so I forgot it was two-handed only. And I just missed the bladebound bit.
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Aldori dueling blade is the best way to go. You get one free martial or exotic weapon proficiency. Aldori dueling blade is 1d8 19-20x2 and you can use weapon finesse with it provided you have the exotic weapon prof. for it. It otherwise works as a longsword.
It's better, IMO, because you don't need to sink the feat and skill point for dervish dance. Yes, you don't get dex to damage right away, but you can use your feet for better things.
To answer everyone's questions yes agile is legal for PFS play. It is in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.
Once you can afford it I would add agile to your black blade. There is no rules saying you can further enhance it beyond those it already gets.
You could also potentially get your AC higher if you're willing to dump 2 stats, str and cha potentially, to have higher dex and int.
I would further suggest getting mage armor as a spell. Never really sure why it wasn't on the Magus spell list to begin with.
Click avatar for my build just switch elven thinblade for scimitar and arcane accuracy for spell shield.
I have to say I expected my gauntlet to sit on the floor gathering dust, but you have all given me hope that I can do this thing.
A couple of things I have learned is that the characters must be half elf or half Orc (the reason why hasn't become clear yet) and they have been more or less on the run through the first three levels (fast exp) so wealth is basically what a character would start with. Plus I will get the old meat shield's accumulated swag value in exchange for goods, but it is likely to be vey low so I'm going on the assumption that I will have maybe a wand or so worth of goodies.
The good news is that the gm has thrown me a bone and allowed me (once we find safety and funding) to purchase an agile enchant on my black blade without that altering the enchant level of the blade (I think mostly because he didn't want to deal with the headache of figuring that out). So that is a dragon sized bone that he is throwing me that lets me skip all the learning to dance nonsense.
In general I feel like a have a good idea of where I'm going now and I owe it to you lot, so thank you.
Hmm with that agile enchant coming this guy gets 1000 times easier to make. Let's just hope I can stay alive long enough to get it.
OK Revising my messed up build a bit -- Madclaw's advice about aldori dueling sword is a good one. If you want something more japanese-like, you could get your DM to allow you to reskin it as a variety of katana, as long as you're not playing PFS or something where that wouldn't be possible. Also, I messed up on the stats as well, I was thinking you needed wisdom to boost will saves, but will saves are a good save for Magi. Also, the black blade will boost your perception and sense motive, and a selection of traits could help as well. The ranger is probably the group's skill monkey, but if he doesn't have a particularly high sense motive, you could get it as a class skill by taking the Suspicious or World Traveler traits (whichever of the two fits your character more). Traits that give class skills are particularly useful for characters that get a lot of skill points, as this one will (6 per level, or 7 if you use the favored class bonus).
Str 13 (3)
Dex 16 (10)
Con 14 (5)
Int 14 (5) +2 Human = 16
Wis 9 (-1)
Cha 8 (-2)
You should still get spell shield when you do finally get magus arcana, and you should buy a wand of shield for use until then and afterwards as well. 750 for 50 uses of +4 shield bonus is a very useful thing. Maybe give it to the oracle to use on you if ze has high UMD capabilities.
Edit: didn't see your later post. If you can swing that wand, maybe by pooling it with the other members of the party, it will help a lot.
Half elf or half orc works equally well, but don't forget to look at the alternate race features in the APG and see if any of them will complement your character. E.g. if you go half orc, you might go for a bonus to climb instead of intimidate.
Well everyone agreed they wanted to reroll so now I don't need to worry so much about being the only melee. But I appreciate the help.
You all win the challenge. Check your handy haversack for your prize!
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Doesn't seem like you need the advice anymore, but I'll throw this out for the benefit of future Pathfinders wandering into this thread.
If you were to go with the Aldori duelling sword, the Aldori Duelling Mastery feat would be perfect for you as it adds +2 AC as a shield bonus, with a bonus +2 initiative as well.