My basic question seems relatively simple, if two abilities offer you the ability to control a number of undead equal to your level would you control 2HD/level or just 1HD/Level? The rules don't seem to offer any clarification on the specific issue and I haven't been able to find any verdicts. The basic question becomes a bit more complicated looking to the specifics of what I plan on using though...
I'm looking specifically at the Bonethrall (Su) ability of a Gravewalker (Witch) which reads as follows:
"At 1st level, a gravewalker can take control of an undead creature within her aura of desecration by forcing her will upon it (Will negates, using her hex DC.) If it fails the save, the creature falls under her control as if she had used command undead (once control is established, the undead remain controlled even if outside the witch’s aura). Intelligent undead receive a new saving throw each day to resist her command. The witch can control up to 1 HD of undead creatures per caster level. If an undead creature is under the control of another creature, the witch must make an opposed Charisma check whenever her orders conflict with that creature’s."
And the GraveKnight's Undead Mastery:
"As a standard action, a graveknight can attempt to bend any undead creature within 50 feet to its will. The targeted undead must succeed at a Will save or fall under the graveknight's control. This control is permanent for unintelligent undead; an undead with an Intelligence score is allowed an additional save every day to break free from the graveknight's control. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same graveknight's undead mastery for 24 hours. A graveknight can control 5 Hit Dice of undead creatures for every Hit Die it has. If the graveknight exceeds this number, the excess from earlier uses of the ability becomes uncontrolled, as per animate dead."
I also have a homebrew racial class based on the 3.5 Mohrg monster class so the character has a limit built in by that as well which was ruled as 2HD/level rather than the creature's absent limit in the Pathfinder write-up.
So I'm confused as to what stacks with what and how, do all the abilities come together to mean I can control 7HD/level of undead, do I have to keep track of what abilities are used to control what for the 7HD, or do I just take the higher number and ability (in this case Undead Mastery) and only apply it. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
My basic question seems relatively simple, if two abilities offer you the ability to control a number of undead equal to your level would you control 2HD/level or just 1HD/Level? The rules don't seem to offer any clarification on the specific issue and I haven't been able to find any verdicts. The basic question becomes a bit more complicated looking to the specifics of what I plan on using though...
There rules have never been particularly clear on it, but I know the generally accepted method back on the 3.x boards at WotC was that you have a separate HD limit from each source that you control. For example, a Cleric 5/Wizard 5/Mystic Theurge 10 who somehow got animate dead as a spell-like ability (such as by being an Archlich) can control a total of 180 HD worth of undead with animate dead cast as a wizard, animate dead cast as a cleric, and animate dead using their spell-like ability caster level.
Unless noted otherwise, effects that grant additional HD worth of undead apply across the board. For example, if you had a hypothetical effect that says you can control +1 HD per caster level, then it applies to everything. Similar to how PF Sorcerer bloodlines affect Wizard spells as well since they don't call out sorcerers only.
I'm looking specifically at the Bonethrall (Su) ability of a Gravewalker (Witch) which reads as follows:
"At 1st level, a gravewalker can take control of an undead creature within her aura of desecration by forcing her will upon it (Will negates, using her hex DC.) If it fails the save, the creature falls under her control as if she had used command undead (once control is established, the undead remain controlled even if outside the witch’s aura). Intelligent undead receive a new saving throw each day to resist her command. The witch can control up to 1 HD of undead creatures per caster level. If an undead creature is under the control of another creature, the witch must make an opposed Charisma check whenever her orders conflict with that creature’s."
Same with this. If you had a cleric with Command Undead (the feat) who multiclassed Gravewalker Witch, their abilities are seperate. Since the HD of the creatures they could control are limited to their respective levels, a cleric/gravewalker wouldn't get much use out of it, as they would be weaker for it (in terms of controlling undead with these abilities).
And the GraveKnight's Undead Mastery:
"As a standard action, a graveknight can attempt to bend any undead creature within 50 feet to its will. The targeted undead must succeed at a Will save or fall under the graveknight's control. This control is permanent for unintelligent undead; an undead with an Intelligence score is allowed an additional save every day to break free from the graveknight's control. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same graveknight's undead mastery for 24 hours. A graveknight can control 5 Hit Dice of undead creatures for every Hit Die it has. If the graveknight exceeds this number, the excess from earlier uses of the ability becomes uncontrolled, as per animate dead."
Same deal here. A separate ability with its own limits and effective caster level. Thus it's a separate total. A 15th level cleric Graveknight could control a combined HD of 135 (60 HD for cleric, 75 HD for Graveknight).
I also have a homebrew racial class based on the 3.5 Mohrg monster class so the character has a limit built in by that as well which was ruled as 2HD/level rather than the creature's absent limit in the Pathfinder write-up.
Again, separate effective caster level and/or HD pool.
So I'm confused as to what stacks with what and how, do all the abilities come together to mean I can control 7HD/level of undead, do I have to keep track of what abilities are used to control what for the 7HD, or do I just take the higher number and ability (in this case Undead Mastery) and only apply it. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
You do need to track the HD limits separately. Don't worry, it's not hard. You can do it with a simple note on your character sheet that looks like this:
Cleric: 30/60
Cleric Command: 10/10
Wizard: 60/60
Wizard Command: 10/10
Mohrg: 10/30
To get the absolute most HD worth of undead possible, Theurgists are generally a good route, and you'd probably want items like the ioun stone that gives +1 caster level (applies to all caster levels you possess, so that can land you another +4 HD per class/SLA).
Leadership or Simulacrum are both ideal for getting the absolute most HD worth of undead controllable. For example, if you have mystic theurge with wizard 14/cleric 10 casting, and you use simulacrum to create a copy of yourself, you get a loyal minion who casts as a wizard 7, cleric 5, and thus can control 48 HD worth of undead himself. For each copy of yourself you create, that's another 48 HD worth of undead you could control.
Alternatively, the mystic theurge might have leadership and another mystic theurge follower, and keep pyramiding from high to low levels, with decreasing amounts of undead followers. Etc, etc.
That pretty much answers my question then, thank you.
That pretty much answers my question then, thank you.
You are very welcome, sir.