RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I ran a sparring session between a PC and a captain of the guard at the fort they were at. One of things I did, but want to find out if I did it right, is have the captain do a take down while grappling.
It worked like this:
1st round: Initiated grapple
2nd round: Maintain grapple and pined the PC
3rd round: Maintained the grapple but instead of dealing damage he did the trip combat maneuver. He fell prone with PC, and thus didn't release the pin.
4th round: Released the grapple and punched the PC twice (ground and pound.) I ruled that because he was on top, he didn't suffer the normal -4 to melee rolls but the PC did suffer from the -4 to AC against such rolls.
Looking back at it, the course of action makes sense but I am not sure the rules really allow what happened.
Thoughts?
Nope. The rules do not allow the grappler to make a combat maneuver as part of the maintaining action.
While grappling the grappler may do only these things as part of the maintain action.
1) Move the grappled opponent
2) Damage the grappled opponent
3) Pin the grappled opponent
4) Tie up the grappled opponent if pinned
However....you could have one of the grapplers allies trip the grappled opponent. This would be legal and give you the same effect. Note: As far as I can tell tripping a grappled opponent does not break the grapple.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Strictly speaking, you don't have the option of performing a Trip as part of the same action used to maintain the grapple.
Also, grappling/pinning doesn't cause you to share a space with your opponent, so once you both went prone you're not "on top". But even if you were, there are no provisions for removing the -4 to attacks for being prone.
So technically what you did was "custom". But hey, you're the GM!
If you want a similar effect, try a baddie with a level of Maneuver Master monk, allowing you to tack on a grapple check (to initiate) into a full-attack routine. Do a full-attack, replacing your normal attack with a trip (per normal Trip rules), then doing your "freebie" grapple check. Assuming both are successful, you have them prone and grappled while you're standing adjacent to them. Next round you can pin or do whatever.
I would rule the captain could do this as part of the pin via this part of the grapple rules:
"Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus".
I could see that as being interpreted as being able to move both him and yourself into the the prone position if you have the opponent pinned. However, as a GM I would give the guy the +4 to break out since being prone is very much a hazardous place to be.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Thanks guys, this helps a good deal. To be fair, I did tell the player that he was allowed to do the same thing as the captain, but he kept rolling low for almost all of his actions in the spar.
In the future I might change things, but being able to trip someone you are grappling should be something that can be done. You can damage someone with a one handed weapon or move them 15 feet (or more if your speed is higher) so why not trip?
I like the +4 bonus to attempt to escape the grapple, and if this ever comes up again (probably wont) I will use it. I am not sure if I will allow the grappler to maintain a grapple on a tripped opponent and stay standing. I will have to think about that one.
I believe the grapple condition takes into account the two combatants will be on the ground at times and thus gives the condition to both parties.
Being knocked prone is flat on your trunk and not in a wrestling or grappling position. That being said a take down is grappling manuever and could be used to lay the opponent flat on one side or the other.
I always have used grapple checks to handle any actions inside the grapple. I would give the grappler bonuses to both his/her CMB AND CMD if they had feats or abilities like improve trip and the like.