I've recently gotten into Pathfinder after only experiencing D&D through the Neverwinter Nights and similar games. I avoided casters at first because the spell list was really simplified for the games (No flying, hardly any utility spells besides Identify and Knock, etc.) I think I'm ready to enter the world of prepared casting now. I wanted a divine caster because I don't think I'm ready for managing a wizard's spellbook to access the spell list. I went with cleric because I had a flash for a character concept I like.
The part of mechanical interest is that this cleric also knows a decent bit about arcane magic from her background (read: UMD). This is for Society play, so Mystic Theurge is out of the question, since it takes too long. I don't like the slowed spell progression even for a full 20 levels, anyway.
I had some help in the form of Rogue Eidolon's guide to the domains, but the rest of it is all my fumbling in the dark. I'm hoping to get some advice on my planning process, but I'll be cutting a lot to avoid wordiness.
Human Cleric 1
STR 10 Was scared of encumbrance in heavy armor. Doesn't seem important in PFS.
DEX 12 Going to go Full plate, but should I lower it to 10?
CON 14
INT 13 (Bump at level 4) Wanted the 14 to fit the build concept, but thought the DEX and CON were more important because they have saves.
WIS 16 Wasn't planning on much debuffing or blasting to get 18 here.
CHA 14 May have been too enamored with Channel Energy when I first read about it. Still want this for Selective Channeling and UMD.
Traits: Dangerously Curious for UMD, Beneficent Touch (Silver Crusade, reroll 1s while healing 1/day. Bleh.)
Diety: Desna, Domains: Luck (Bit of luck will be OP when allies get multiple attacks), Travel (Not as sure about this over Liberation now; +10 movement seems less important when you're not going to melee. Teleport still nice.)
Skills: 2 + 1 human + 1 INT + 1 favored class = 5. Diplomacy, Heal, Sense Motive, UMD, rotating Knowledge: Religion, Arcana, and maybe Planes.
Feats: Selective Channeling, Combat Casting, planned for Heavy Armor, Extend Spell, Improved Initiative, Lighting Reflexes, and Combat Expertise. Didn't realize you had to be in melee for that one.
Iteration 2 will drop STR to 8 and bump INT to 14, using the extra skill point to pick up Spellcraft, which fits the concept nicely but I wasn't sure was that helpful for a cleric. Also not sure about Heal's usefulness. Maybe could drop DEX to 10 to get WIS to 15 + 2 = 17 so it's 20 at level 12, but then I couldn't get even that little help to ranged attacks.
The Benificent Touch trait is getting swapped out, probably for Reactionary, or maybe Deft Dodger, and maybe I should take Quicken Spell. I know about the rods, but I'm not really sure how they're used.
I was going to use a shield and just chuck darts when I'm out of spells early on, but maybe I should use a crossbow instead?
I wasn't really looking at the APG when I made this. Maybe this build idea is a lot simpler as an Oracle.
Any help or ideas you have would be appreciated.
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Check out TarkXT's guide for the cleric, its really good. You can find it in this link.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/advice/guideToTheGuides
It is very hard to do an offensive caster build for the cleric because his spell list doesn t support this concept that well. They are great buffers / debuffers strikers or tanks in melee or even using a bow but their crownd control and damage spells are a little lacking.
Having said that they make great summoners. Summon monster I to IX is amazing. Your DM is going to hate your guts but you will own the battlefield. Its just not a simple build to do or to play, it can be very cumbersome. Since you are a new player I would not recommend it.
If you cant find any idea you like on TarkXT' s guide check out the oracle with heavens as mystery and haunted as a curse.
Thanks. I didn't come up with that cleric guide in my searches. Unfortunately, while I like the idea of the archer cleric, I can't put enough in my physical stats without breaking my character concept. I'd have middling to-hit and no STR boost to damage at best. Even the support cleric is apparently expected to hit things quite a bit.
Looking at the oracle has some potential, since I'd be less MAD. I'd get more use from my spells, and I could have a better DEX for when I ran out and had to shoot things. I'll need to take a closer look.
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Human Cleric 1
STR 10 Was scared of encumbrance in heavy armor. Doesn't seem important in PFS.
DEX 12 Going to go Full plate, but should I lower it to 10?
CON 14
INT 13 (Bump at level 4) Wanted the 14 to fit the build concept, but thought the DEX and CON were more important because they have saves.
WIS 16 Wasn't planning on much debuffing or blasting to get 18 here.
CHA 14 May have been too enamored with Channel Energy when I first read about it. Still want this for Selective Channeling and UMD.
The first thing I notice is a lack of focus. This will hurt if your going for a casting build of any type. Starting with a 16 in your casting ability is ok. Over all if your focusing on casting it will not be enough. To keap pace with the incress of saves. That is why it is imporant to start with a very high casting stat.
Channeling positive energy is realy powerful at level 1-3. At level 6 plus it is a cheep way to top off the group. The amount healed dose not keap up with the amount of damage in combat. Spending ability point's and feets on one ability. That becomes less and less useful as you level. Is not somthing I recomend.Traits: Dangerously Curious for UMD, Beneficent Touch (Silver Crusade, reroll 1s while healing 1/day. Bleh.)
Diety: Desna, Domains: Luck (Bit of luck will be OP when allies get multiple attacks), Travel (Not as sure about this over Liberation now; +10 movement seems less important when you're not going to melee. Teleport still nice.)
Skills: 2 + 1 human + 1 INT + 1 favored class = 5. Diplomacy, Heal, Sense Motive, UMD, rotating Knowledge: Religion, Arcana, and maybe Planes.
...
Over all it is a good plan. The only draw back to the plan. Dangerously Curious for UMD. UMD is greet for utility, and healing. As a full divine caster you have them on your spell list. So you realy don't need UMD. Wanding offensive arcane spells is just a realy bad idea as there saves are very very low and easy to make.
My suggested changes for this build.
Str 8
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 19
Cha 12
Traits: Reactionary : +2 Trait bonus to initiative. Exalted of the Society : You may channel energy 1 additional time per day.
Your domain plan is good if not very good. Movement counts for allot even if your not a combat character.
Skills : Diplomacy, Heal, Sense Motive, Knowledge Religion, Linquistics.
The first thing I notice is a lack of focus. This will hurt if your going for a casting build of any type. Starting with a 16 in your casting ability is ok. Over all if your focusing on casting it will not be enough. To keap pace with the incress of saves. That is why it is imporant to start with a very high casting stat.
I already planned not to bother with much offensive spells, so this doesn't really concern me.
Channeling positive energy is realy powerful at level 1-3. At level 6 plus it is a cheep way to top off the group. The amount healed dose not keap up with the amount of damage in combat. Spending ability point's and feets on one ability. That becomes less and less useful as you level. Is not somthing I recomend.
Good to know it stays useful for a while. Probably should drop the Selective Channeling, though.
The only draw back to the plan. Dangerously Curious for UMD. UMD is greet for utility, and healing. As a full divine caster you have them on your spell list. So you realy don't need UMD. Wanding offensive arcane spells is just a realy bad idea as there saves are very very low and easy to make.
I agree offensive spells in wands are bad, but are you telling me that it's not worth a support cleric getting UMD for the use of Mage Armor, Shield, Enlarge Person, Silent Image, etc., plus any scrolls found during the adventure? Plenty of PFS games don't have arcane casters.
Oh, and I really wanted to make the haunted/heavens oracle suggestion work. I think it has fantastic flavor. A boy/girl is really interested in the stars and what might be out there, and one night, s/he tries to send a message. Something answers.
Unfortunately, the revelations seem fairly ho-hum, except for the amazing Awesome Display. That and Heighten Spell could make Color Spray way more effective than it should be for the majority of a PFS character's life. After that, I don't see what use anything else is. Awesome Display only works on pattern illusions, which means color spray and two fascination spells. Granted, you can fascinate an entire battalion now, but combat would snap them out of it. Leaving what--distracting guards?
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I agree offensive spells in wands are bad, but are you telling me that it's not worth a support cleric getting UMD for the use of Mage Armor, Shield, Enlarge Person, Silent Image, etc., plus any scrolls found during the adventure? Plenty of PFS games don't have arcane casters.
Or you could just get a wand of Bless, Magic Weapon, Shield of Faith, Align Weapon, and/or Bulls Str. And never need UMD to use them. The only big one arcane casters get in this area over divine caster is haste. That is a expensive wand.
Oh, and I really wanted to make the haunted/heavens oracle suggestion work. I think it has fantastic flavor. A boy/girl is really interested in the stars and what might be out there, and one night, s/he tries to send a message. Something answers.
Unfortunately, the revelations seem fairly ho-hum, except for the amazing Awesome Display. That and Heighten Spell could make Color Spray way more effective than it should be for the majority of a PFS character's life. After that, I don't see what use anything else is. Awesome Display only works on pattern illusions,...
I love oracle class over all. I feel it is much better divine caster then a cleric. This is for two reasons. One there just to few good divine spells that are really good. So even with limited selections you can get most of the best divine spells. Two 4 skill points a level plus Cha base casting. Gives you the ability to cover party face. So it lets you cover divine caster and still have a out of combat role to play.
With a casting oracle my top suggestion for a mystery is spellscar. There are many revelations in the spellscar mystery that help focus on casting. More to the point debuffing with dispel magic, and later brake enchantment.Eldritch Bolt (Su): For low level play this ability is one of the best. And it stays useful because it is a force effect.
Eldritch Resistance (Su): You gain resistance to 5 types of energy damage. Very useful defensive ability.
Magic Penetration (Ex): This makes it very easy to strip buffs off. Along with make it easy to remove negative spell effects off your party.
Mystic Null (Ex): Gives a save bonus vs spells, spell like ability's, and later supernatural ability's.
Or you could just get a wand of Bless, Magic Weapon, Shield of Faith, Align Weapon, and/or Bulls Str. And never need UMD to use them. The only big one arcane casters get in this area over divine caster is haste. That is a expensive wand.
I'm seeing your point. Plus, now that I think about it, in PFS you can't get the party to chip in for communal wands.
I hadn't seen the spellscar mystery before. Pretty interesting. Not sure what curse you would take with that, but tongues would be nice to combine with the elementals revelation. I had been looking at Flames or Dark Tapestry before.
Yeah, I'm going to give this a shot.
Human Spellscar Oracle
STR 8
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 19
Curse: Haunting and Tongues both fit the Primal magic idea, but I think Haunted is better. Spellscar really should have its own curse.
Traits: Reactionary, something
Feats & Mysteries:
Human: Improved Initiative
1: Combat Casting?, Eldritch Bolt
3: Extend Spell?, Mystic Null
5: Extra Revelation: Eldritch Resistance
7: ?, Magic Penetration
9: ?
11: ?, Spell Resistance
And... that's it for PFS.
Spell selection:
1st Obscuring Mist, Cause Fear, Bless, Prot. from Evil? Burning Disarm? Sun Metal?
That's all I have time for now. I've got some idea for improving the roleplaying of someone altered by primal magic, but I'll make another post for that.
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Human : Improved Initiative
Revelation 1: Elderitch Bolt
Feet 1: Exta Revelation: Mystic Null
Revelation 3: Animate Primal Forces
Feet 3: Abundant Revelations : Animate Primal Forces
Feet 5: ?
Revelation 7: Magic Penetration
Feet 7: Spell Penatration
Feet 9: Greater Spell Penatration
Revelation 11: Spell Resistance
Feet 11: ?
Spells: Positive Energy all cure spells.
1st: Cure Light Wounds, Bless, Buring Disarm.
Stay away from spells that make you better in combat. As they will not realy help your over all build. I have never taken or use protection from evil more then a hand full of times. You are better off scrolling it.
I do like the haunted curse. The big draw back is using wands in combat.
For the other trait pick one that will give you perception as a class skill. If your go Grand Lodge : Observant. I know there is a ganaric one but I can,t think of it.
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I have a real love for the Outer Rift Mystery from the Inner Sea guide if you want to go for a demonic terror feel. Couple the +4 Intimidate from Wings of Terror with feats like Dazzling display and, later, Shatter Defenses for a wonderful-terrifying concept that I plan to play soon.
Shatter defenses is just awesome if you have a rogue or vivisectionist who can exploit it to its fullest, and still useful if you don't. There are a couple classes that your DM could rule as immune (other rogues, barbarians)but for pretty much everything else it's an infinite use AC debuff.
On a side note: how did a cleric thread turn into an oracle thread?
Well, I was really looking for a divine caster, and I hadn't given anything in the APG a good look. And now I can't change the title.
The Outer Rift does look nice, but I don't think it would suit me.
As for Abundant Revelations, I wouldn't normally pick something that gave me only one more use, but it doesn't seems like the Oracle has many must-have feats. I've only seen 4-5 combats per PFS module at this point, so 2 good summons will help.
I'm working on some flavor-enhancement for Spellscar oracles in general. I'll give it its own thread when I'm done, since it'll go beyond the scope of this.
For skills, I'm looking at 6 skill points, since Favored class bonus is going into more spells after level 3. Diplomacy, Spellcraft, 2 skill points rotate between Knowledge arcana, nature, religion and the planes, Perception, and one more. Probably Sense Motive. What are the rules for wands with spontaneous casters? Does it have to be one of your known spells for you to use it without UMD? Or can it be any spell on the oracle list?
Finally, am I wearing a shield, or bringing a crossbow?
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For wands thay just need to be on your spell list of one you can cast. For scrolls you must have the spell on your list and the ability to cast that level spell.
Crossbow no real need for you to get closer then 30ft. Untill you get to 60ft range on your Elderitch Bolt. Then no real need to get closer then 60ft.
Played the oracle yesterday. It worked really well, but it was a module that took place over three days, so I didn't need to worry about spell management as much as usual. Thanks for the help.
I added some primal magic flavor by making a table of silly events that would go off when I used the Eldritch Bolt, and it was a hit.