RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Hi, all!
I'm trying to pre-calculate some attack modifiers for my Cavalier after he leveled up, and some things are getting pretty complex. I'd like to double check with you all and see if I'm missing anything.
Here's what I have so far. This is for when the character is charging from horseback using a lance:
ATTACK ROLLS
BAB +12
STR +6
Lance enchantment +1
Charge +4 (increased from the normal +2 by the 3rd-level Cavalier's Charge ability)
Power Attack -0 (Because he has the Furious Focus feat)
Inspire Courage +3 (from the party Bard)
Heroism +2 (also from the party Bard, cast before most combats)
Banner +2 (5th- level Cavalier ability)
Total: +30 to hit
DAMAGE
Base weapon damage 1d8 (lance)
Vital Strike 1d8
Lance enchantment +1
STR +6
Mount's STR +6 (from the 8th-level Order of the Sword ability)
Power Attack +8
Inspire Courage +3 (from the Bard)
All of this (I think) is tripled due to the Spirited Charge feat.
Total: 6d8 + 72
Now, we get to the question of what happens when I am challenging an opponent. That adds a few more things, as seen below:
ATTACK ROLLS
+30 from above
+4 from the Challenge (Order of the Sword ability)
Total: +34
DAMAGE
Base total from above: 2d8+24
Challenge bonus: +12
Tripled from Spririted Charge
Total: 6d8 + 108
Now comes the really hairy bit: what happens if I get a critical? The lance deals x3 damage on a crit, but Spirited Charge deals triple damage as well. I think, per the rule on multiplying on page 12 of the CRB, that means my total multiplier is x5. However, the Vital Strike dice don't get multiplied on a crit. That means I am looking at something like this:
((1d8 + 36) x 5) + (1d8 x 3) = 8d8 + 180
Does that look right?
One think I'm not 100% confident about is the interaction between Vital Strike, Spirited Charge, and critical hits. It sounds like the order of operations should be that the Vital Strike damage should be multiplied for a Spirited Charge, since the latter simply says that you do triple damage on a charge. However, the Vital Strike feat does specifically call out that the damage is not multiplied on a critical, so one could make an argument that the intent of the rule is for it to function the same way, and thus not be multiplied due to Spirited Charge.
What do you think?
Thanks for your time!
I'm reasonably sure that unless you're running a house rule you can't vital strike on a charge since a charge is a full round action. Other than that it looks good to me.
Okay, a couple of things here. As Jak said, you can't charge and Vital Strike in the same turn. So that part of the damage is gone, as well as answers the Vital Strike critical question.
However, there is one more issue in terms of your attack bonuses. Heroism, Banner, and the Order of Sword challenge bonus are all moral bonuses. Most bonuses of the same type don't stack, and moral isn't one of the exceptions. So heroism and banner both do the same thing for your attack roles, but your Challenge bonus gives +2 more than the others.
So the routine you should see on a normal (power attacking) charge would be: +28 to hit, and 3d8 + 72.
Is you are also challenging, then you would have an attack at +30 to hit, and 3d8 + 108 damage.
As for critical hits, the only thing that really doesn't multiply are extra dice that get rolled. You are right that x3 charge + x3 crit = x5 damage. So you would end up with 5d8 + 120, or 5d8 + 180 on a challenge crit.
And just FYI, if you end up two handing your lance, instead of just holding it in one hand your Str bonus goes up to +9 damage, and Power Attack increases to +12. This results in a 3d8 + 93 damage on a normal charge, or 3d8 + 129 on a challenging charge.
I'm reasonably sure that unless you're running a house rule you can't vital strike on a charge since a charge is a full round action. Other than that it looks good to me.
Uh-oh....
Technically it is the mount that charges. Our cavalier here just happens to be making an attack at the end of that charge.
Davick Until that mess gets resolved I'm sticking with charging is a full round action for both rider and mount.
I can't believe that I forgot that banner and order of the sword were morale bonuses.
I didn't think the Cavalier was affected by his own Banner though?
I guess it depends on if you need to be an Ally of the Banner or an Ally of the Cavalier.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I'm reasonably sure that unless you're running a house rule you can't vital strike on a charge since a charge is a full round action. Other than that it looks good to me.
Good point. Up until now, my GM has been letting me Vital Strike on a charge. I'll have to check with him to see if that was a deliberate house rule, or simply an error.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Heroism, Banner, and the Order of Sword challenge bonus are all moral bonuses. Most bonuses of the same type don't stack, and moral isn't one of the exceptions. So heroism and banner both do the same thing for your attack roles, but your Challenge bonus gives +2 more than the others.
Good point! I completely missed that. I remember double-checking that the Bard's song stacked with everything, but I forgot about the Heroism and Banner.
And just FYI, if you end up two handing your lance, instead of just holding it in one hand your Str bonus goes up to +9 damage, and Power Attack increases to +12. This results in a 3d8 + 93 damage on a normal charge, or 3d8 + 129 on a challenging charge.
A valid point, but my character uses a shield, and conceptually I like that better. Thanks for the tip, though!
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I didn't think the Cavalier was affected by his own Banner though?
I guess it depends on if you need to be an Ally of the Banner or an Ally of the Cavalier.
I don't have a reference handy, but I distinctly remember seeing somewhere that a character counts as his or her own ally for purposes of effects like this. So I'm pretty sure that is legitimate.
I don't have a reference handy, but I distinctly remember seeing somewhere that a character counts as his or her own ally for purposes of effects like this. So I'm pretty sure that is legitimate.I didn't think the Cavalier was affected by his own Banner though?
I guess it depends on if you need to be an Ally of the Banner or an Ally of the Cavalier.
Sweet
Found it in the FAQ
So I have some things to talk about with my DM :-)