Kingmaker for a group of newbies, with some questions.


Kingmaker


So, this is the first time I am sort of playing a PnP, and to top it off I am also the GM of the first adventure (Kingmaker) that me and my group are running. The whole group is the same, we are all sort of newbies wanting to give this a try, and I have some questions I hope someone will be able to answer.

Do monsters/npc's follow the same unconscious/dying rules that apply to the PC's?

The quests that are printed in the first book, "Stolen Land" don't mention a XP reward under the "Reward" section. Is this correct, or should I be handing out XP? If yes, how do I know how much I should give?

When players are exploring an area, should they be the ones initiating the perception checks to find hidden things (as in them asking to search for hidden things), or should I be the one asking them to make perception rolls every time they explore something?

After a fight/encounter and a player still has a poison effect (or some other lingering effect), how often can a player try to make cure saves? And how do I deal with fails on tries?

Thanks


In order:

Yes.

The XP awards are discussed in the first part of the chapter detailing how much XP completing all of the side quests are worth.

In exploration the Perception checks are passive - they make them once they have completed exploration of a given hex.

Poison saves continue "real time" - i.e., poisons that show a duration along the lines of [duration: 6 rounds] are still happening round by round. Retain initiative order until the poison runs its course or the characters treat the poisoned injury in some fashion.

The same for any affliction - if it is one they don't know about right away (mummy rot for example), they won't know what's what until the symptoms manifest and the sorry bugger that botched their saving throw takes the first round of effects. Some afflictions have symptoms that show before dealing their effects, so check each affliction first.


darkblue wrote:
So, this is the first time I am sort of playing a PnP, and to top it off I am also the GM of the first adventure (Kingmaker)

Welcome!

Quote:
Do monsters/npc's follow the same unconscious/dying rules that apply to the PC's?

I generally say no -- they're immediately dead below zero -- unless it makes sense to say yes. It's too much work to track the negative hit points and stabilization rolls of every last critter. However, you can certainly feel free to say "yes" if your party wants to find somebody "not dead yet" and stabilize them for questioning (or just for humanitarian reasons) -- especially if you think there's important info they need that they haven't stumbled on yet.

Quote:
The quests that are printed in the first book, "Stolen Land" don't mention a XP reward under the "Reward" section. Is this correct, or should I be handing out XP? If yes, how do I know how much I should give?

Pg. 13, "Northern Greenbelt Quests" -- 400xp per quest completed. (Adjust at your discretion.) Also note pg. 59, "Rewards for exploration" -- 100xp per hex fully explored.

Quote:
When players are exploring an area, should they be the ones initiating the perception checks to find hidden things (as in them asking to search for hidden things), or should I be the one asking them to make perception rolls every time they explore something?

It's a matter of taste. I usually ask my players to roll, but I also like to do some of the rolls myself, just to keep them guessing -- they never know if I'm rolling dice behind the screen because they're missing something they should be seeing, because they're about to be hit by a wandering monster, or because maybe I'm just being fidgety. Try it both ways and see what you and your players like best.

Quote:
After a fight/encounter and a player still has a poison effect (or some other lingering effect), how often can a player try to make cure saves? And how do I deal with fails on tries?

See lengthy "how does poison work" outline here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/poison

Grand Lodge

Murph. wrote:
darkblue wrote:
So, this is the first time I am sort of playing a PnP, and to top it off I am also the GM of the first adventure (Kingmaker)

Welcome!

Quote:
Do monsters/npc's follow the same unconscious/dying rules that apply to the PC's?

I generally say no -- they're immediately dead below zero -- unless it makes sense to say yes. It's too much work to track the negative hit points and stabilization rolls of every last critter. However, you can certainly feel free to say "yes" if your party wants to find somebody "not dead yet" and stabilize them for questioning (or just for humanitarian reasons) -- especially if you think there's important info they need that they haven't stumbled on yet.

Quote:
The quests that are printed in the first book, "Stolen Land" don't mention a XP reward under the "Reward" section. Is this correct, or should I be handing out XP? If yes, how do I know how much I should give?

Pg. 13, "Northern Greenbelt Quests" -- 400xp per quest completed. (Adjust at your discretion.) Also note pg. 59, "Rewards for exploration" -- 100xp per hex fully explored.

Quote:
When players are exploring an area, should they be the ones initiating the perception checks to find hidden things (as in them asking to search for hidden things), or should I be the one asking them to make perception rolls every time they explore something?

It's a matter of taste. I usually ask my players to roll, but I also like to do some of the rolls myself, just to keep them guessing -- they never know if I'm rolling dice behind the screen because they're missing something they should be seeing, because they're about to be hit by a wandering monster, or because maybe I'm just being fidgety. Try it both ways and see what you and your players like best.

Quote:
After a fight/encounter and a player still has a poison effect (or some other lingering effect), how often can a player try to make cure saves? And how do I deal with fails on tries?
See lengthy "how does...

I do allow 'named' npcs to go to negatives because my pcs have actually saved some to interrogate and pass judgement on them in a formal manner. But, normally when they get to zero -- DEAD!


Thanks for all the answers. Some things are making a bit more sense now :)

Not sure how I missed the 400xp Reward bit, guess I was just overwhelmed with long texts and rules. But it makes more sense , seeing as I was having the feeling of my players falling behind in the "XP Curve" of the Adventure Path.


Thanks to the quick help I got last time, I thought I might ask one more question in this thread.

1. If an attack on a monster says for example (1d6 plus grab) or (1d6 plus trip) does that mean if my attack with the monster hits the player it will automaticly grapple/trip the target as well? or will I need to make a CMB vs CMD check as well?


darkblue wrote:

Thanks to the quick help I got last time, I thought I might ask one more question in this thread.

1. If an attack on a monster says for example (1d6 plus grab) or (1d6 plus trip) does that mean if my attack with the monster hits the player it will automaticly grapple/trip the target as well? or will I need to make a CMB vs CMD check as well?

(1d6 plus grab) = deals damage & free combat maneuver check (CMB vs CMD) against the target. Your monsters are going to hate freedom of movement later on.


Turin the Mad wrote:
darkblue wrote:

Thanks to the quick help I got last time, I thought I might ask one more question in this thread.

1. If an attack on a monster says for example (1d6 plus grab) or (1d6 plus trip) does that mean if my attack with the monster hits the player it will automaticly grapple/trip the target as well? or will I need to make a CMB vs CMD check as well?

(1d6 plus grab) = deals damage & free combat maneuver check (CMB vs CMD) against the target. Your monsters are going to hate freedom of movement later on.

Also note that monsters with (plus grab or trip) do so without generating an attack of opportunity (which grab or trip usually do.


Once again, thanks for the quick answers.

Had played it wrong up until now, and started to really question it when my players went up against a monster which had (1d12+5 plus energy drain) and it seemed a bit easy for the monster to drain.


darkblue wrote:

Once again, thanks for the quick answers.

Had played it wrong up until now, and started to really question it when my players went up against a monster which had (1d12+5 plus energy drain) and it seemed a bit easy for the monster to drain.

Not everything attached to a damaging attack is a combat maneuver. You need to ccheck the universal monster rules for this stuff. In the case of (damage plus combat maneuver), you were correct - in the case of (damage plus energy drain), you check two things. First, the stat block. If there are any exceptions to the universal rules, the stat block's listing of the special attack is at the end/bottom. If there are permitted saves, etc these are in the stat block. If not, use the universal monster rules.

Also, you need to understand the type of damage being done and know what the defense against it is. For example, the description may tell you that the creature's incoproreal touch attack (hitting an easier AC than normal) deals 1d12+5 negative energy and that energy drain occurs if/when a target creature takes damage from this attack. A death ward spell thwarts negative energy damage completely, rendering the attack ineffective and - if damage has to be dealt for the energy drain to take effect - thwarting the energy drain to go with it. (Death Ward may also stop energy drain as well, this is where learning about defenses comes in handy).

Bob Fighter has an AC of 30 from plate armor, heavy shield and Dex. Sadly, he does not have a Ring of Protection nor does he wear Bracers of Armor. Wally the Wizard on the other hand routinely makes use of Mage Armor and Shield spells along with his higher Dex bonus for a 25 AC. Mr Critter has an incorpreal touch attack that ignores Bob's plate armor and shield, so poor Bob has an incorporeal touch AC of 11. Wally the Wizard, because of where his AC comes from, has an AC that fully applies against incorporeal touch attacks and is delighted that Mr Critter has a MUCH harder time hitting him than he does Bob.

If Bob has ghost touch armor and shield, however, he will retain his full AC against Mr Critter. Hopefully Bob also has a ghost touch weapon matching his armor so he can go to town on Mr Critter. These examples are quick and dirty, not touching on other sources of touch AC and regular AC, but should get the ball rolling.

While stat blocks always list regular and touch AC, they almost never list incorporeal touch AC. You have to figure it out since there are not too many attacks keyed against it - but when there are, it *really* matters! (See: ghosts.)


Turin, I was not aware that there is any type of armor bonus that applies to touch but not to incorporeal touch. Everything I can think of applies either to both or neither. Or perhaps I've been playing something wrong; could you clarify, please?


It's just that there are sources of regular AC that apply against incorporeal touch attacks that do not apply against normal touch attacks.

Incorporeal touch attacks include all the incorporeal critters as well as spectral hand. AC bonuses that apply besides sources of touch AC include mage armor, shield, bracers of armor & the shield ring. This is why the ghost touch armor property is so expensive compared to the weapon property.


Mage Armor

An invisible but tangible field of force surrounds the subject of a mage armor spell, providing a +4 armor bonus to AC.

Unlike mundane armor, mage armor entails no armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, or speed reduction. Since mage armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can't bypass it the way they do normal armor.

Since it's a field that surrounds a subject, wouldn't it apply to normal touch attacks as well?

Shield

Shield creates an invisible shield of force that hovers in front of you. It negates magic missile attacks directed at you. The disk also provides a +4 shield bonus to AC. This bonus applies against incorporeal touch attacks, since it is a force effect. The shield has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance.

Again, since the shield doesn't touch you, wouldn't the bonus apply against normal touch attacks as well? Normal shields don't help, since they are effectively part of your body, but this should.

I guess you could read both descriptions as only applying against incorporeal touch attacks; I have a hard time believing that was the intent tough.


Unfortunately, the armor effect / shield effect is not one that stops "normal" touch attacks that mrerly require touching you to take effect (rays, alchemists fire, etc). I argued during the gunslinger playtest that incorporeal touch AC should be used against guns - force effects are generally regarded as having hardness 30 and bucketloads of hp, 3 times harder than steel and half again as hard as +5 enchanted steel.

Alas, that is now a house rule, although I would price ghost touch armor at +2 instead of +3 to account for guns used in actual play.

I like your line of thought :)

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